Pondering the Beginner Pete Plan

[alex9026]

I ran three, maybe four cycles of Pete Plan. Iain is absolutely right regarding the starting pace on intervals, as I started at an achievable pace, when I could've perhaps started a split shy. It caught up with me, but other stuff in my life did too so that's a factor to consider. I would repeat it again in preparation for a TT, because I don't have the patience to repeat cycle after cycle and the sessions can get a little soul destroying. I'd add though, I rarely did the weekly TT effort, it would just be a hard distance piece instead. Pete does state you could treat this session as a rate capped TT on a distance e.g a 5k at R24.

The plan worked for me. I took six seconds off my 2k, which I can't grumble at. If I took a week off and went again I'd no doubt have squeezed a little more out.

I see no harm in spreading the training week out over 10-14 days.

[reuben]

Well, I've been kind of holding out posting, figuring out what I want to do, since completing the BPP. Given the posts above by my compatriots who are at, near, or just finished the BPP, here's my latest.

Week 25 - Bonus week 1! Hoot nah!!!

10k - Fastest ever 10k+ pace at 2:25.0. But it's a distance/endurance/SS/training session, so there's really no such thing as a PB, I suppose. I felt good, but didn't want to try harder, because...

Well, if I'm ever gonna try to figure out what my 2k limit might be, this would be a good time. So I need some fast interval sessions to top off and refine whatever fitness and technique I've gained, get used to a faster pace, a higher stroke rate, and just how it feels to go, uh, fast (cough). My 2k goal is 2:06 pace, which I interpolated would place me in about the 45th percentile of my age/sex/weight group last season. I'm looking at last season because this season is still relatively new, and the last time I looked no one had gone under 7:00 yet, so the numbers from last season are likely to be more representative.

A few weeks ago I did 8x500 2r at 2:05.9 with a final rep of 2:03.5, but 500 isn't 1,000, and 1,000 isn't 2,000. Nevertheless, I don't think that 2:06 is an insane goal, regardless of whether or not I reach it. Anywho, I decided to try Nx1k 3r at 2:06 and see how many I could do, as 4x1k 3r is one of the sessions that pops up in the BPP from time to time. I decided that I'd stop when I couldn't hold 2:08, and guessed that I could get two at 2:06 before I would die.

UNKx1k 3r - In a nutshell, this went more poorly than the 10k session went well.

I tried to keep 2:06 in the first rep, but the first few hundred meters my pace was all over the pace, as I couldn't find a consistent groove. One stroke would be 2:04, the next stroke would be 2:10. Ugh. Maybe my efforts to speed up or slow down or smooth out each aberrant stroke made it worse, self-reinforcing my errors, overcompensating too much, although I've rowed at this pace before, and don't recall such troubles. Such is life. Toward the end I just kind of drifted off and ended at 2:06.9 - I think (see below).

For the second rep I decided that 2:07 might be more reasonable. But then after a few hundred meters the PM5 lost its connection to ergData, my HR monitor, the Mothership, our alien overlords, and all ships at sea, thus resetting everything to zero. So the first rep and the bit of the second rep were lost to the infamous luminiferous ether. The good news is that a technical glitch forever erased a couple of bad intervals, and the C2 log is none the wiser.

I set it all back up again.

On the third rep I drifted again, ended at 2:08-something, maybe even 2:09, as I didn't feel anywhere near as good as I did on the first rep.

So I guess I need to check the connections and maybe wash the HR strap in case that's causing trouble. Maybe replace the HR battery? Who knows?

I looked in my log, and a month ago I did 4x1k 3r at 2:09.0 average, so I figure that I should be able to produce 2x1k 3r at 2:06, or at least 2:07. An actual 2k is a different story, however, so maybe my 2:06 target isn't reasonable. Iain has suggested that 2:07.5 might be a reasonable target for me, but as Lucretius said, "The whole of life withal is a struggle in the dark."

Week 26 - Bonus week 2 (incomplete)

3x1k 3r - after last week's mini debacle, I toned it down from 2:06, searching for 2:08, which I accomplished without much difficulty. 2:08 now seems to be much more reasonable, but compared to last week I can't say how much of that is due to daily variation, starting too fast, inability to maintain a consistent pace, electronic resets distracting/stressing me, or anything else, but that's what I'm thinking at the moment. After all, those are only two data points, and two points are rarely a reliable guide.

Iain suggested 2:07.5 might be a good 2k goal for me, and that might be achievable, assuming I actually go through with a 2k effort. I'll say here and now that I don't intend to die, gasping for breath, and falling off the erg, feet awkwardly still held in the straps. I plan to put in what will hopefully be my hardest ever effort, but I'm not trying to prove anything to anyone, including myself, just finding an approximate near term best effort.

And after removing batteries, washing the HR strap, letting them dry overnight, etc., there were no electronic glitches of any sort today. Based mostly on feel, I'm starting to think that a 10 minute warmup would be better than my current 5 minute version (1 slow, 1 fast, 1 slow, 1 fast, 1 slow). My estimated max HR is 170, and I was nowhere near that for the first, or even the second, rep, although my pace declined. If I were mentally tougher, this probably wouldn't be an issue.

Code: Select all

Time 	Meters 	Pace 	Watts 	Cal/Hr 	S/M 	
12:48.3 3,000 	2:08.0 	167 	873 	28 	158
4:16.0 	1,000 	2:08.0 	167 	874 	28 	155
4:15.9 	1,000 	2:07.9 	167 	875 	28 	159
4:16.4 	1,000 	2:08.2 	166 	871 	29 	162

[reuben]

Already thinking about 'what's next'. I was planning the classical lunch Pete plan with 2 or 3 cycles (that I will not be able to start this until mid July)

Same here.

As I see it, both plans are similar, each counting three steady state sessions, two interval sessions and one hard distance session every other week. But the interval sessions of the 5k plan seem to be longer?
...
I will probably attempt to follow the classic pete plan, trying to adapt it to my capabilities as best I can. On the one hand not six sessions a week, but spreading the different sessions out over a longer time frame, for example, spreading each week over two weeks.

I glanced at the PP. Given that I've only ever done the three core sessions of the BPP and none of the optional sessions, parsing the 6 PP sessions across two weeks at 3 sessions per week seems to be within my realm, just as you describe. I would probably stick to the long SS and long interval sessions, substituting or ignoring the short/fast/sprint intervals, but that's just my little world.

I'd also like to get in some hiking/backpacking before the weather turns too hot and humid, and I have more than a few bicycles which haven't seen much time recently, either on the trainer or outdoors, calling me as well. And kayaks. I've been highly remiss in my fall/winter/spring hiking, when the weather is the best in my region.

Note that the interval rest periods in the PP are longer than those in the BPP, as I recently discovered in this thread. I don't know why there's a difference, although maybe it was explained and I missed it.

Maybe we should create a new topic to track our progress after the BPP plan?

I've thought of this as well, but haven't started a new topic, as I don't know what I might or might not do at this point. It would be silly of me to start such a topic and then not follow through with my own results, either short or long term, so I've been refraining until I reach some sort of conclusion. But there is time. There's no rush for any of us, I don't think. You've opined the same in the recent past.

I've also thought that maybe we should have a separate "BPP - experience and summary" thread for future BPP participants. I'm sure that there's a lot of good information in this thread, but no one in their right mind will read all 133 [now 138] pages. I think it would be appropriate for those who start and quit to post as well. The reasons could be the usual, such as work or family obligations, or others like boredom, injury, and so on.

Good idea. Indeed, this thread is mostly interesting to share your daily experiences with others, but not to give an overall picture of the plan.

Maybe "BPP - experience, summary, and epilogue", or something similar to incorporate your idea of possible subsequent steps.

[DJ1972]

However most people take the "achievable" paces (eg 8 x 500 at 2k -3) as the starting pace. This only gives a couple of rotations before it gets too much and makes it a plan to prepare for an upcoming TT. If you do start at the pace of the fastest recent continuous row of the total distance of the interval sessions, then you can keep it up for 6 - 10 rotations and I found it works well from only a couple of weeks back to rowing after a long break.

Probably I will have a go at one cycle of the Pete lunch hour (3 weeks) before my break. The idea of backing a bit the starting pace is a very good advice as also confirmed by alex9026. I will probably adjust the plan over 8-10 days depending on life, summer heat, recovery etc..

[DJ1972]

Maybe we should create a new topic to track our progress after the BPP plan?

Yes definitely. There is a thread on FreeSpirits, but it is a bit inactive. Now that I opted for the 2k lunch hour, let's start a new thread, keep our motivation and see where we are in the winter.

[iain]

Pete designed the lunchtime plan a long time before BPP. It is a simplified version of an earlier version of the wolverine Plan minus the low rate L4s that Pete was not a fan of. The rest intervals are largely from that. However Pete was very fit, recovered quickly and had limited time, so when creating his more bespoke BPP I think he reduced the rest as he felt that these were unnecessary. It is true that the recovery from 3-5' is not that great and the longer recoveries are designed for rowing the majority at a recovery pace, while I think Pete mainly took passive recovery.

As for how to adapt it, I think taking extra rest / SS days is the way to go. The "Hard distance" is an open slot for whatever you want to fit in / concentrate on. So you can omit this or use it for other purposes (eg CTC, club challenges, nonathlon etc.). I do think the shorter intervals add value, but if 5k+ is more important, perhaps do not go as all out, perhaps rate capping to a couple less than 2k (*and probably 2k for 500s). This will initially be an easier session as all will be at your fastest recent 4k+ pace initially. This is likely to be 2-6S/500m slower than you are capable of and that is a fair amount. In contrast the 7.5-8k pace for longer intervals are more like 1-2S slower than you are capable so will be challenging from the off.

Good luck.

[Joris]

A few weeks ago I did 8x500 2r at 2:05.9 with a final rep of 2:03.5, but 500 isn't 1,000, and 1,000 isn't 2,000. Nevertheless, I don't think that 2:06 is an insane goal, regardless of whether or not I reach it.

I looked in my log, and a month ago I did 4x1k 3r at 2:09.0 average

3x1k 3r - after last week's mini debacle, I toned it down from 2:06, searching for 2:08, which I accomplished without much difficulty. 2:08 now seems to be much more reasonable, but compared to last week I can't say how much of that is due to daily variation, starting too fast, inability to maintain a consistent pace, electronic resets distracting/stressing me, or anything else, but that's what I'm thinking at the moment. After all, those are only two data points, and two points are rarely a reliable guide.

Given your best 8 x 500m and 4 x 1k performances, I think 2:06 might indeed be too ambitious for a 2k person best attempt.
My best 8 x 500m session is about two seconds faster than my best 4 x 1000m session and Pete uses the following rules of thumb (although with longer rest periodes between the intervals):
8 x 500m = 3seconds faster than 2k pb pace (2k – 3)
4 x 1000m = 1second slower than 2k pb pace (2k + 1)

So yeah, I would aim for something in between 2:09 and 2:07.5 if you consider a 2k personal best attempt.

However most people take the "achievable" paces (eg 8 x 500 at 2k -3) as the starting pace. This only gives a couple of rotations before it gets too much and makes it a plan to prepare for an upcoming TT. If you do start at the pace of the fastest recent continuous row of the total distance of the interval sessions, then you can keep it up for 6 - 10 rotations and I found it works well from only a couple of weeks back to rowing after a long break.

Probably I will have a go at one cycle of the Pete lunch hour (3 weeks) before my break. The idea of backing a bit the starting pace is a very good advice as also confirmed by alex9026. I will probably adjust the plan over 8-10 days depending on life, summer heat, recovery etc..

I'm a little confused by the advice to do the first interval sessions a little slower. Obviously there is more guarantee of continuous progress when starting slower, but isn't it a waste of the first interval sessions if you don't do them to your full potential? So when seting aside the mental aspect, isn't it more efficient to go hard from the start and accept that you won't make progress every session?

Maybe we should create a new topic to track our progress after the BPP plan?

Yes definitely. There is a thread on FreeSpirits, but it is a bit inactive. Now that I opted for the 2k lunch hour, let's start a new thread, keep our motivation and see where we are in the winter.

There is also an old thread of the Pete Plan on this forum:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=165414&start=2340

But the last post dates back to november 2020 and it counts even more posts than this thread, so maybe it's better to start a new one. Something like: The Pete plan (following up on the BPP plan).

In any case, I'm in!

[alex9026]

I'm a little confused by the advice to do the first interval sessions a little slower. Obviously there is more guarantee of continuous progress when starting slower, but isn't it a waste of the first interval sessions if you don't do them to your full potential? So when seting aside the mental aspect, isn't it more efficient to go hard from the start and accept that you won't make progress every session?

Someone will no doubt explain it a little more eloquently than me, but a view it as building a runway. Ultimately, you know you can row X distance X number of times at X pace, that doesn't just disappear overnight. Your first cycle or two is maintaining that and continuing to build a foundation, becoming accustomed to the feel of the distance/rating/effort. Let's not forget, your last effort is hard and you're setting an average pace for the following session based on this.

It's frustrating reaching the point of feeling you can't complete a workout, mine was the 8x500m (not my strongest distance anyway). Another cycle or two at this distance, practicing these shorter quicker distances, may have squeezed another cycle out of me.

[iain]

I'm a little confused by the advice to do the first interval sessions a little slower. Obviously there is more guarantee of continuous progress when starting slower, but isn't it a waste of the first interval sessions if you don't do them to your full potential? So when seting aside the mental aspect, isn't it more efficient to go hard from the start and accept that you won't make progress every session?

...view it as building a runway. Ultimately, you know you can row X distance X number of times at X pace, that doesn't just disappear overnight. Your first cycle or two is maintaining that and continuing to build a foundation, becoming accustomed to the feel of the distance/rating/effort. Let's not forget, your last effort is hard and you're setting an average pace for the following session based on this.

It's frustrating reaching the point of feeling you can't complete a workout, mine was the 8x500m (not my strongest distance anyway). Another cycle or two at this distance, practicing these shorter quicker distances, may have squeezed another cycle out of me.

+1, the pacing works so long as you are improving more in 3 weeks (or whatever your cycle length if done at different frequency) than your fluctuation in pace. Personally work & life can mean that my pace varies significantly at the same RPE. Pete (who designed this for himself) is ultra competitive and very tough as well as being in his prime when this was done, so managed to keep improvements going for many cycles. The other difference is ability to maintain the required pace precisely. After years of this I still tend to have to slow to hit the target and so am not rowing most efficiently. After a few cycles most people find 0.6S/500M is a good improvement and this reduces fast, so 1S/500M can break you. I have always struggled to continue at anything beyond a paddle after conceding to fail target, so it is really important to be able to make the target pace. Unless you have a key race or TT imminent, a slightly slower pace will not make a huge difference, while a few failures will derail your training, so better to get used to these at an attainable pace before going close to maximum IMHO.

In addition if this follows the full BPP and a 2k TT, you have been working hard for a while and will benefit from lowering the intensity for a few weeks. Many coaches recommend only 1 all out week in 3, PP builds to expecting all out performances at least twice a week, so allowing your body a bit of recovery first is a wise move!

[Dangerscouse]

Unless you have a key race or TT imminent, a slightly slower pace will not make a huge difference, while a few failures will derail your training, so better to get used to these at an attainable pace before going close to maximum IMHO.

In addition if this follows the full BPP and a 2k TT, you have been working hard for a while and will benefit from lowering the intensity for a few weeks. Many coaches recommend only 1 all out week in 3, PP builds to expecting all out performances at least twice a week, so allowing your body a bit of recovery first is a wise move!

Very true. You need continual confidence boosts, and the fact that you managed to over achieve a week or two ago will be a poor consolation or totally disregarded if you keep HDing.

Thats a good point about training intensity and making sure that you adapt it to your personal circumstances, rather than slavishly following it on the basis that that's what the plan says.

[DJ1972]

Until the end, life gets under way to finish the BPP. I had some rather urgent laser eye treatment scheduled for tomorrow and I had to squeeze W24.5 and the 2k time before, with no rest day in between. After treatment no major physical effort is advised.

Week 24.5 - 4x1000m with a proper 3 min rest

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M	
14:54.1	4,000	1:51.7	251	1162	28	168
3:43.6	1,000	1:51.8	250	1161	27	162
r: 3:00	18						
3:43.4	1,000	1:51.7	251	1164	28	167
r: 3:00	16						
3:43.8	1,000	1:51.9	250	1159	28	170
r: 3:00	17						
3:43.3	1,000	1:51.6	251	1165	30	173
r51		

This would set my pace for today's 2k, targeting 1:52.0, better than the 1:52.5 forecast.
I decided to go for the 1800m identical pace and last 200m sprint. It did not got according to plan but the result is a lot better than expected. My legs had no energy at the end, and this is where normally I am stronger.

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M	
7:25.9	2,000	1:51.4	253	1169	28	167
0:55.2	250	1:50.4	260	1195	28	157
0:55.8	500	1:51.6	252	1166	28	162
0:55.6	750	1:51.2	255	1176	28	167
0:55.8	1,000	1:51.6	252	1166	27	168
0:55.8	1,250	1:51.6	252	1166	28	170
0:55.7	1,500	1:51.4	253	1171	28	171
0:56.0	1,750	1:52.0	249	1157	28	171
0:56.0	2,000	1:52.0	249	1157	29	170

August 24 --> June 25. I have my birthday present for Saturday:
1 - BPP completed
2 - PBs 7:25.9
3 - motivation is better than ever
4 - welcome Lunch Hour PP

Congratulations for whoever completed this plan. This is for me a personal achievement

My final thoughts:
1 - follow Noob thread for first assessment whether you are up to the plan
2 - do not hesitate to check forums for older posts, if you don't find an answer or want advise, there are many people very experienced and knowledgeable here who can advise you
3 - Personalize your plan, e.g. you may split in 2 or 3 intervals your steady state session, you may change Rest time between intervals if you find them too short at the start etc… Use your rest days according to the session difficulty or even stretch a week plan over 8 days
4 - if you start BPP from a beginner level and expect immediate heart rate improvement, effects may show half way after week 12 and onwards with significant improvement after week 20
5 - do not give up, this is a long plan and I doubt it can be done in 24 weeks, there are always things personal and unexpected (injuries, illness and more ) that delay the plan. When you miss one week, repeat the same week that you lastly completed.
6 - watch out for your recovery, slow down your steady state sessions if required to prepare your next interval sessions. Move a session before another and adapt the plan to your busy life.
7 - use the right drag factor
8 - from week 16, all speed intervals are at maximum in volume. This is hard work with beginner gains gone. Set up a reachable target, and last interval to improve or get as close as possible.
9 - Breathing is one of the most difficult aspect (for me), and at AT and TR levels, switching from 1 to 2 breathes/stroke may be helpful
10 - the BPP is launching pad for the Peter Plan or a 5K plan. Hard work paid off so you can maintain all your fitness gains by continuing and setting new targets whatever they are.

[Ruin Christmas]

2 - PBs 7:25.9

heck yeah, nice job! time to update your signature!

[alex9026]

It did not got according to plan but the result is a lot better than expected. My legs had no energy at the end, and this is where normally I am stronger.

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M	
7:25.9	2,000	1:51.4	253	1169	28	167
0:55.2	250	1:50.4	260	1195	28	157
0:55.8	500	1:51.6	252	1166	28	162
0:55.6	750	1:51.2	255	1176	28	167
0:55.8	1,000	1:51.6	252	1166	27	168
0:55.8	1,250	1:51.6	252	1166	28	170
0:55.7	1,500	1:51.4	253	1171	28	171
0:56.0	1,750	1:52.0	249	1157	28	171
0:56.0	2,000	1:52.0	249	1157	29	170

August 24 --> June 25. I have my birthday present for Saturday:
1 - BPP completed
2 - PBs 7:25.9
3 - motivation is better than ever
4 - welcome Lunch Hour PP

This looks like a very well executed 2k to me, strong effort. To have no energy at the end and half a second drop off in pace means you aren't walking away thinking "what if".

And congrats on seeing the program through and progress made.

[p_b82]

This would set my pace for today's 2k, targeting 1:52.0, better than the 1:52.5 forecast.
I decided to go for the 1800m identical pace and last 200m sprint. It did not got according to plan but the result is a lot better than expected. My legs had no energy at the end, and this is where normally I am stronger.

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M	
7:25.9	2,000	1:51.4	253	1169	28	167
0:55.2	250	1:50.4	260	1195	28	157
0:55.8	500	1:51.6	252	1166	28	162
0:55.6	750	1:51.2	255	1176	28	167
0:55.8	1,000	1:51.6	252	1166	27	168
0:55.8	1,250	1:51.6	252	1166	28	170
0:55.7	1,500	1:51.4	253	1171	28	171
0:56.0	1,750	1:52.0	249	1157	28	171
0:56.0	2,000	1:52.0	249	1157	29	170

<snip>

congrats on the plan completion and that 2K - doesn't look that it was too badly paced, just maybe a little over-eager in that first 250m - but a huge improvement all the same!

[Joris]

It did not got according to plan but the result is a lot better than expected. My legs had no energy at the end, and this is where normally I am stronger.

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M	
7:25.9	2,000	1:51.4	253	1169	28	167
0:55.2	250	1:50.4	260	1195	28	157
0:55.8	500	1:51.6	252	1166	28	162
0:55.6	750	1:51.2	255	1176	28	167
0:55.8	1,000	1:51.6	252	1166	27	168
0:55.8	1,250	1:51.6	252	1166	28	170
0:55.7	1,500	1:51.4	253	1171	28	171
0:56.0	1,750	1:52.0	249	1157	28	171
0:56.0	2,000	1:52.0	249	1157	29	170

August 24 --> June 25. I have my birthday present for Saturday:
1 - BPP completed
2 - PBs 7:25.9
3 - motivation is better than ever
4 - welcome Lunch Hour PP

This looks like a very well executed 2k to me, strong effort. To have no energy at the end and half a second drop off in pace means you aren't walking away thinking "what if".

And congrats on seeing the program through and progress made.

Congratulations on completing the plan and on your impressive 2k score!
And as mentionned, better a little drop in the end than to finish with strong legs I suppose.

I'm planning a light steady state session today and my 2k test tomorrow.
Your performance gives me hope that it should be possible to match the last 4 x 1k session, especially since you didn't have a recovery day.

Until the end, life gets under way to finish the BPP. I had some rather urgent laser eye treatment scheduled for tomorrow and I had to squeeze W24.5 and the 2k time before, with no rest day in between. After treatment no major physical effort is advised.

Good luck with the eye treatment.
When do you hope to start back up again?