Ranger's training thread

[hjs]

hahahaha

Given that you row 30 seconds _slower_ than the best in your age and weight division and, this year, I will row 30 seconds _faster_ than the best in mine, your laughter here is ridiculous.

_We_ all realize this, Henry.

But do you?

ranger

The first is already not true anymore, and if we take into account that I am not 40 but will be 44 it is even more not so. An for me "only" being 6.1 your comment are again indeed ridiculous. Not many people my age/height beat me.

What you will row is 6.4x.x at best. If you are lucky enough to get your weight on track. Some seasons you did not and then even 6.4.x will be out of your reach.


we indeed realize that

Ps a fact........... Just did find out that Andrew Benko, a close to 6.00 rower is only 188cm/6.2, he is heavy 100 kg age 42, So he is just 2 cm taller and 8/9 kg heavier then me. So he is faster without being much bigger.

[ranger]

Going well or badly doesn't come into it

Sure it does, if you have even done this sport for real, rather than just talking about it.

You can get sick, injured, stale, etc.

You can get overwhelmed by your personal life and/or your professional life and not have time for rowing at all.

And so forth.

I don't foresee anything of this sort on the horizon, but you never know.

ranger

[ranger]

What has stopped Cureton from sharpening adequately?

I am working up through the training bands, rowing well.

Now, at low drag (118 df.).

ranger

[ranger]

The only way TO GET a top effort is to row open rate. IOW: don't restrict yourself to a fixed ratio of watts to stroke rate (SPI).

There's no evidence for this at all.

Better than that, in addition to limiting myself to a fixed rate and SPI, I will also restrict myself to a fixed ratio, probably 2-to-1, whatever rate and SPI that comes out to.

ranger

[mikvan52]

At low drag, your rate naturally falls and your SPI rises.

The drive gets shorter and the recovery longer.

You learn how to generate power with quickness, leverage, and timing rather than strength.

(BTW:) I said that I would probably row at least 31-32 spm at BIRC, even if I wasn't entirely sharpened up for it.

I do not wish to discuss WIRC yet. BIRC is just fine.

#1: You will not avg. 13 spi if you want to win.
#2: The stuff you 've written above makes no mathematical sense.
#3: Do you really want to shorten your drive and increase power while lowering strenth? Very confusing.
Please elaborate and illusrtrate with real workout numbers..

[macroth]

I am working up through the training bands, rowing well.

You've been erging at UT1* and UT2* since May, and apparently you're still stuck there. Any plans to move on to AT? Time to work up through those bands, indeed. Tick, tock, tick, tock.


*rangerlese for rowing with breaks at whatever SPI he fancies at a given point in time, with no due consideration for heart rate, heart rate as a percentage of max (since max is unknown), or continuous meters/duration rowed (who's counting?). Not to be confused with UT1 and UT2 training in their general acceptance.

[mikvan52]

The only way TO GET a top effort is to row open rate. IOW: don't restrict yourself to a fixed ratio of watts to stroke rate (SPI).

There's no evidence for this at all.

I suggest you look at all ( as in ALL) data from all racing ever recorded.
☛ in your terminology: SPI falls dramatically in the last 500m of every peak effort where winning is at stake.

it is useless to attempt to be obstructive on this point, Rich.

Here: Look at Pinsent vs. Cracknell... particularly the "And what a charge" part....
Ask yourself: who was rowing lower spi at the end of this race?... It was Pinsent: He had a higher rate than Cracknell that did not produce adequate watt production to hold his spi as high as it was earlier in the race.

You never seem to do the math, Rich. In troll-like fashion you just say things.

Pinsent!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbuESIPF ... r_embedded

Pinsent and crew analyse the ATHENS win
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCzfP8mUduM

[ranger]

#1: You will not avg. 13 spi if you want to win.

Why not?

I have already pulled a sub-6:30 2K at 12 SPI, finishing 1:34 @ 34 spm over the last 300m.

But that was at high drag, rowing poorly.

I now row well (13 SPI) at low drag (118 df.).

If you are quick, at low drag, your stroking power improves, relative to high drag, because there is more emphasis on your legs, your most powerful levers.

Low drag also naturally lowers the rate and raises the ratio by shortening the drive and lengthening the recovery.

ranger

[ranger]

Look at Pinsent vs. Cracknell

Hilarious stuff.

Come on.

We aren't them.

They aren't us.

We're little old men.

At BIRC, if I pull a 2K with flat splits and a constant ratio and rate, 1:34 @ 32 spm (13 SPI), I'll break the 55s lwt WR by 22 seconds, even though I am a few months shy of 50.

I will row as fast as Eskild does now at 37.

So, the issue doesn't have anything to do with winning.

I am just racing against the clock.

If I pull 6:16 at BIRC, the guy rowing next to me is not going to be pulling 6:17.

He's probably not going to be pulling sub-7.

ranger

[hjs]

Look at Pinsent vs. Cracknell

Hilarious stuff.

Come on.

We aren't them.

They aren't us.

We're little old men.

ranger

But still you claim to be able to pull a better score pound for pound

[mrfit]

Seems ranger is excited about his 13 spi low drag rowing as if it is some kind of new discovery now heralding the rows of only the most supreme rowers with mythical powers. I wondered how long has ranger claimed to row at 13 spi and low drag, because as far as I can tell it's been a LONG time. I count 6 years. Here's an old post from Sept 2 2004

Carl—

I used to row at very high drag (180 or so) and higher rates. I now row at very low drag (104) and lower rates. We'll soon see how these compare in race performances (at various distances). I will race at low drag and lower rates this year
At high drag (180 or so) and higher rates, I used to row at about 10 SPI. At low drag (104) and lower rates, I now row at 13 SPI
At high drag, the wheel slows down more quickly during the recovery. Therefore, it is best to rush the recovery (i.e., raise the rate) and get back to the catch and the next drive to keep the wheel spinning. At low drag, the wheel spins more freely. Therefore, it is best to expand the recovery (i.e., lower the rate) to let wheel spin. ranger

[whp4]

At BIRC, if I pull a 2K with flat splits and a constant ratio and rate, 1:34 @ 32 spm (13 SPI), I'll break the 55s lwt WR by 22 seconds, even though I am a few months shy of 50.

Suddenly you are 10 years younger? Apparently not only do you row in the wrong weight class (remember, you used to boast of gaming the weigh-in, and haven't approached your PB since the race organizers started paying attention), you've also been rowing in the wrong age group. Will the secret to a WR at BIRC include wearing a dress?

I will row as fast as Eskild does now at 37.

Now what on earth gives you the notion you can match the efforts of an Olympic rower little more than half your age? Superior physique? Superior technique? Superior coaching? You have none of those things!

If I pull 6:16 at BIRC, the guy rowing next to me is not going to be pulling 6:17.

He's probably not going to be pulling sub-7.

And that will all be true when you do a 6:45 without even sharpening or preparing...

[mikvan52]

Look at Pinsent vs. Cracknell

Hilarious stuff.

Come on.

We aren't them.

They aren't us.

We're little old men.

ranger

My point was not how fast they went. It was that the rate for Pinsent went up at the end of his 2k to beat a lower rating Cracknell.
(They had been matching each other stroke for stroke throughout the piece, prior to that sprint)...

As usual, ranger cannot stay on subject.


But still you claim to be able to pull a better score pound for pound

[mikvan52]

Let's make a 13 spi reference chart for each pace:


All the following situations calculate out to 13 spi
1:45 ......=> 23.2 spm....=> 7:00 2k
1:44.......=> 23.9 spm....=> 6:56 2k
1:43.......=> 24.6 spm....=> 6:52 2k
(now were entering the ranger forbidden zone. Fasten your seat belts! Have a nice laugh!
1:42.......=> 25.4 spm.... => 6:48 2k
1:41.......=> 26.1 spm.... => 6:44 2k
1:40.......=> 26.9 spm.... => 6:40 2k

We can stop there. It is all too ridiculously daunting to consider these numbers as being REAL for a 59 year old 170 lb guy.

I have plenty of experience watching elderly ergers row personal bests...
No lwt 55-59 year old Lwt has ever kept their average rate below 27 strokes per minute for an entire 2k and been under 6:50....

"Mr. Big Stroke" "thinks" he'll be an outlier... and do 6:40... PARTIALLY SHARPENED...
Well, he's got the Liar thing down pat....

Someone might ask: "Well, what rate would 55-59 lwts row as an average for a whole 2k at 1:40 pace?"

The answer is : above 32; and most probably, above 34

1:40.......=> 32.0 spm.... => 6:40 2k is a SPI of 10.94....

a constant power output of 350 watts (aka 6:40 pace) is so much easier to maintain at 32 spm than it is at 26.9 spm so long as the rower has good aerobic capacity
IOW 14% more strokes per minute.

[ranger]

Now what on earth gives you the notion you can match the efforts of an Olympic rower little more than half your age? Superior physique? Superior technique? Superior coaching?

I don't know why Eskild has slowed down so radically over the last few years.

Ask him, not me.

I am just taking care of my own business.

ranger