Ranger's training thread

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
ranger
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » January 31st, 2011, 12:43 pm

PaulH wrote:
ranger wrote:I just show up and try to do my best.
So now we know - the best 2K you can do at the moment is to not even pick up the handle.
Yes, for those who live in "moment-time."

Thank God that doesn't include me.

If you live in "moment-time," you can't train (or learn, or change, or plan, or...) at all.

You become a one-button machine:

ON/OFF

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

PaulH
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by PaulH » January 31st, 2011, 1:27 pm

ranger wrote: Yes, for those who live in "moment-time."

Thank God that doesn't include me.
It took longer than a moment for you to drive to the event, and yet you still couldn't pick up the handle.

JimR
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by JimR » January 31st, 2011, 2:37 pm

ranger wrote:
PaulH wrote:
ranger wrote:I just show up and try to do my best.
So now we know - the best 2K you can do at the moment is to not even pick up the handle.
Yes, for those who live in "moment-time."

Thank God that doesn't include me.

If you live in "moment-time," you can't train (or learn, or change, or plan, or...) at all.

You become a one-button machine:

ON/OFF

ranger
It appears that if you live in "ranger-time" you can't race?!

JimR

luckylindy
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by luckylindy » January 31st, 2011, 4:08 pm

ranger wrote:
JimR wrote: I should have said "You are no where near your FM at 1:48".
You can say it, but it's not true.

That's exactly where I am.

In my "Save a Horse, Ride a Cowboy" sessions, I am pulling 1:42 @ 26 spm at my anaerobic threshold, 172 bpm.
So you listen to "Save a Horse, Ride a Cowboy" for over 2 hours straight? Does your wife worry about you?
6'1" (185cm), 196 lbs (89kg)
LP: 1:18 100m: 17.3 500m: 1:29 1000m: 3:26 5k: 18:58 10k: 39:45

JimR
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by JimR » January 31st, 2011, 4:24 pm

luckylindy wrote:
ranger wrote:
JimR wrote: I should have said "You are no where near your FM at 1:48".
You can say it, but it's not true.

That's exactly where I am.

In my "Save a Horse, Ride a Cowboy" sessions, I am pulling 1:42 @ 26 spm at my anaerobic threshold, 172 bpm.
So you listen to "Save a Horse, Ride a Cowboy" for over 2 hours straight? Does your wife worry about you?
She probably thinks it is just a phase he is going through ... some buy sporty red cars, some hide in the basement and drive to far-away places to not race.

JimR

ranger
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » January 31st, 2011, 5:05 pm

JimR wrote:It appears that if you live in "ranger-time" you can't race?!
I can't race?

Is that why I have won all of the major championships, BIRC twice, with three WR rows, and have had the best 2K races in my age and weight division (55s lwt) for the last two years even though I was 58, and then 59?

I see.

No one can race very well when they are training, rather than preparing to race.

Then again, those that just train to race are slow--and lose.

So what to do?

I did this:

Just preparing to race, I won everything, hand over fist, for a few years.

Then, when my times plateaued, I stopped racing and preparing to race in order to train, so that I could get better rather than just worse and worse.

And even so, I have remained the best at racing!

Nice.

Now that I have trained myself to row well (13 SPI) at low drag (119 df.), when I am again fully prepared to race, I'll be quite a bit better over 2K than I was ten years ago.

ranger
Last edited by ranger on January 31st, 2011, 5:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

ranger
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » January 31st, 2011, 5:10 pm

luckylindy wrote:So you listen to "Save a Horse, Ride a Cowboy" for over 2 hours straight? Does your wife worry about you?
Yea, it's pretty strange, but it's _very_ useful for training.

I can no longer listen to music of various sorts when I row.

I now row right on a beat, so I like to sync my rowing with the beat in the music I listen to.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

ranger
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » January 31st, 2011, 5:17 pm

PaulH wrote:
ranger wrote: Yes, for those who live in "moment-time."

Thank God that doesn't include me.
It took longer than a moment for you to drive to the event, and yet you still couldn't pick up the handle.
Sure.

Planning and decision-making is complex and on-going for real human beings.

Those who have turned themselves into ON/OFF machines, operating in moment-time, don't have this problem.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

JimR
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by JimR » January 31st, 2011, 5:29 pm

ranger wrote:
JimR wrote:It appears that if you live in "ranger-time" you can't race?!
I can't race?
Exactly.

This past week you claimed to be ready to race a 6:32 - 6:36 2K and you couldn't even pick up the handle. The past fall you were on about beating NavHaz and couldn't break 7 minutes. The past two years you were going to rewrite all the record books for erging all time and you couldn't break the 50-59 LWT WR.

The examples are many, the conclusion the same ... you have no idea how to race ... or prepare to race. What you are good at is maintaining an unhealthy weight-loss pattern.

JimR

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by JimR » January 31st, 2011, 5:31 pm

ranger wrote:
PaulH wrote:
ranger wrote: Yes, for those who live in "moment-time."

Thank God that doesn't include me.
It took longer than a moment for you to drive to the event, and yet you still couldn't pick up the handle.
Sure.

Planning and decision-making is complex and on-going for real human beings.

Those who have turned themselves into ON/OFF machines, operating in moment-time, don't have this problem.

ranger
Is lack of planning and no decision making complex for you too? I have always found it very easy ... although I confess the results are usually poor.

Hey wait ... you results are usually poor ... maybe we are on to something here?!

JimR

ranger
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » January 31st, 2011, 5:35 pm

Hey.

I would be delighted to see some other veteran rowers try to train themselves to row well (13 SPI for lightweights; 16 SPI for heavyweights) at low drag (e.g., 119 df.).

It would be interesting to have comrades in arms.

ranger
Last edited by ranger on January 31st, 2011, 6:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

ranger
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » January 31st, 2011, 5:37 pm

JimR wrote:Hey wait ... you results are usually poor
Nope.

Just the opposite.

My results are the best--without even preparing for it.

Now that I row well (13 SPI) at low drag (119 df.), when I again race, fully prepared, no one my age and weight will come within a half of minute of my 2K.

And I suspect that, given my "Save a Horse, Ride a Cowboy" training at 26 spm, I will only have increasingly astounding results from there on--throughout my 60s, 70s, and 80s.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

ranger
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » January 31st, 2011, 5:46 pm

Because of the culture that surrounds the sport (the major training plans, clubs, collegiate teams, national teams, winter erg races, etc.), almost no one takes the time to learn to row well at low drag.

The emphasis in training for rowing, first and last, is on racing, and therefore on aerobic capacity, rather than on skeletal-motor and technical effectiveness and efficiency.

This is kind and convenient, but a mistake.

Why?

Rowing is primarily skeletal-muscular and technical.

It is only secondarily aerobic.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

ranger
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » January 31st, 2011, 5:58 pm

JimR wrote:The past two years you were going to rewrite all the record books for erging all time and you couldn't break the 50-59 LWT WR
Strange language.

I "couldn't even" break the 55s lwt WR when I was 59, unprepared, at max drag, still struggling with technique?

Other than my own three WR rows in 2003, I suspect that no male WR, 40-70, has ever been set by anyone who was not just entering an age group, no matter how prepared.

No male WR, 40-70, has ever been set by someone just ready to exit an age group.

Better, I suspect that no male 40-70, just ready to exit an age group, has ever had the best time in their age and weight category.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

lancs
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by lancs » January 31st, 2011, 6:03 pm

ranger wrote:I would be delighted to see some other veteran rowers try to train themselves to row well (13 SPI for lightweights; 16 SPI for heavyweights) at low drag (e.g., 119 df.).

It would be interesting to have a comrades in arms.
These are the kind of posts from you that make me nauseus. There is no evidence whatsoever (none) that you 'row well' at 13spi. You cannot hold any kind of pace and rate at 13 spi, without those breaks you've become so fond of, to keep comfortable.

You're a decent age group rower in a group of about 10. Nothing better than that. You're not a WR holder (unlike Roy) and given you're now so dire at preparing for a race I think you'll actually have difficulty coming close to the 60s lwt WR at a venue that makes you weigh-in at a reasonable timeframe... :)

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