Training Musings and Training Philosophies Thread: Q&A

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
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chgoss
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Re: Training Musings and Training Philosophies Thread: Q&A

Post by chgoss » May 4th, 2010, 8:16 am

Yankeerunner wrote: This year is the 2500th anniversary of Pheidippides's fabled run, and I have wanted to follow those footsteps ever since I read the story back in 6th grade some 50 years ago. This is the year I'll do it.
That is a really great idea Rick, hope you do and take lots of pictures!
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Re: Training Musings and Training Philosophies Thread: Q&A

Post by jliddil » May 4th, 2010, 8:22 am

chgoss wrote:
Yankeerunner wrote: This year is the 2500th anniversary of Pheidippides's fabled run, and I have wanted to follow those footsteps ever since I read the story back in 6th grade some 50 years ago. This is the year I'll do it.
That is a really great idea Rick, hope you do and take lots of pictures!
Provided the Greek gov't does not implode from the current monetary crisis. :-)
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Age: 51; H: 6"5'; W: 172 lbs;

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chgoss
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Re: Training Musings and Training Philosophies Thread: Q&A

Post by chgoss » May 4th, 2010, 8:23 am

ausrwr wrote:It should always be thus. To a large degree, your speed is a genetic accident, the result of picking your parents well. It's how you get there and what you do with it that's the important bit.
A very important observation for those of us that are a tad embarrassed at times with our times..
We have a 2x5k every Tuesday night on RowPro that is pretty popular. Quite often I'm feeling pretty sore/tired and can just barely manage a sub 2:00 pace for both, the other 4-6 people are typically in the low 1:50's down to a few folks in the mid 1:40's.
RP folks are very encouraging of each other regardless of ability :D
52 M 6'2" 200 lbs 2k-7:03.9
1 Corinthians 15:3-8

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Re: Training Musings and Training Philosophies Thread: Q&A

Post by ausrwr » May 4th, 2010, 9:27 am

Damn straight.

I've been fortunate enough to train and race with some of the best rowers on the planet. They are almost without exception some of the most helpful and respectful of others' efforts of any group I've ever known.

They're like the rest of us. Only faster.

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mikvan52
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Re: Training Musings and Training Philosophies Thread: Q&A

Post by mikvan52 » May 4th, 2010, 6:42 pm

Something new in the world of a foot-stretcher reconfiguration:

http://www.batrowing.com/RDNotes/tabid/153/Default.aspx

http://www.hudsonboatworks.com/fileBin/ ... 55763a.pdf


Cruise the site (R&D notes)

There is even a system for the erg!
I've bought the set-up for a 1x so far. I may try to get set up for the erg this coming winter season.

Basically: You can keep your feet in contact with the stretcher (foot pad) throughout the entire stroke thereby increasing drive power.
My preliminary results OTW are encouraging.
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American 60's Lwt. 2k record (6:49) •• set WRs for 60' & FM •• ~ now surpassed
repeat combined Masters Lwt & Hwt 1x National Champion E & F class
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Re: Training Musings and Training Philosophies Thread: Q&A

Post by pmacaula » May 4th, 2010, 7:12 pm

Have to agree with the sentiment that Masters sport is rarely about 'winning', but about staying motivated to continue year after year. RP is excellent in that respect.
I went from almost no regular exercise a little over 2 years ago to a 6 day/week program that continues to this day. In the early days, the motivation was getting healthy and the improvements came in such leaps & bounds that motivation was almost entirely internal. Once I hit a few big goals & the gains shrunk, social motivation became much more important. It is pretty clear how important it is to continuing longer term.

Back to the weights topic. My personal experience this past winter (first time lifting in 25 years) was that a few months doing a circuit of 3x12reps (tgt 80% 1RM) 2x/week yielded material improvements in terms of erg speed.

I started after reading Rowing Faster and concluding that I was significantly below the key strength targets identified by Nolte. For me, the relevant figures were:

Age 40-44 45-49
Squat 1.3 1.2
Deadlift 1.3 1.2
Bench Pull 0.98 0.94
* Number = bodyweight multiplier (e.g. 1.3 x bodyweight = Squat 1RM tgt for 40-44 male)

Based on just a short time on the water in the 1x this season, it seems that my low rate (18spm) speed and run has improved significantly.

In short, Nolte's tables make sense, at least to me. Not clear whether the weight regimen I used is the optimal one, but some progress is better than none...

Cheers. Patrick.

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chgoss
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Re: Training Musings and Training Philosophies Thread: Q&A

Post by chgoss » May 4th, 2010, 9:53 pm

pmacaula wrote: strength targets identified by Nolte. For me, the relevant figures were:
Age 40-44 45-49
Squat 1.3 1.2
Deadlift 1.3 1.2
Bench Pull 0.98 0.94
* Number = bodyweight multiplier (e.g. 1.3 x bodyweight = Squat 1RM tgt for 40-44 male)
:shock: :shock:
Those are serious numbers, I'm under on the squat and I lift twice a week...
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Re: Training Musings and Training Philosophies Thread: Q&A

Post by bloomp » May 4th, 2010, 9:55 pm

chgoss wrote:
pmacaula wrote: strength targets identified by Nolte. For me, the relevant figures were:
Age 40-44 45-49
Squat 1.3 1.2
Deadlift 1.3 1.2
Bench Pull 0.98 0.94
* Number = bodyweight multiplier (e.g. 1.3 x bodyweight = Squat 1RM tgt for 40-44 male)
:shock: :shock:
Those are serious numbers, I'm under on the squat and I lift twice a week...
What are the numbers for an 18/19 year old? I do anywhere from 1.5-1.6xBW for squat...
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Re: Training Musings and Training Philosophies Thread: Q&A

Post by rjw » May 4th, 2010, 10:06 pm

bloomp wrote:
chgoss wrote:
pmacaula wrote: strength targets identified by Nolte. For me, the relevant figures were:
Age 40-44 45-49
Squat 1.3 1.2
Deadlift 1.3 1.2
Bench Pull 0.98 0.94
* Number = bodyweight multiplier (e.g. 1.3 x bodyweight = Squat 1RM tgt for 40-44 male)
:shock: :shock:
Those are serious numbers, I'm under on the squat and I lift twice a week...
What are the numbers for an 18/19 year old? I do anywhere from 1.5-1.6xBW for squat...
.....and while you are at it, what are the numbers for 50-54? Thanks.
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Re: Training Musings and Training Philosophies Thread: Q&A

Post by hjs » May 5th, 2010, 5:01 am

chgoss wrote:
pmacaula wrote: strength targets identified by Nolte. For me, the relevant figures were:
Age 40-44 45-49
Squat 1.3 1.2
Deadlift 1.3 1.2
Bench Pull 0.98 0.94
* Number = bodyweight multiplier (e.g. 1.3 x bodyweight = Squat 1RM tgt for 40-44 male)
:shock: :shock:
Those are serious numbers, I'm under on the squat and I lift twice a week...

Numbers for weight are very dependend on your height. A 6.6 giant will never have really good ratio and a shortass easily will, so those ratio's in itself are nothing more then rough guidelines.
For my training see twitter @Hjsrowing

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Re: Training Musings and Training Philosophies Thread: Q&A

Post by Nosmo » May 5th, 2010, 9:36 am

mikvan52 wrote:Something new in the world of a foot-stretcher reconfiguration:

http://www.batrowing.com/RDNotes/tabid/153/Default.aspx

http://www.hudsonboatworks.com/fileBin/ ... 55763a.pdf
Mike, what did you get, the pro, the elite, the shims?
The Van Dusen foot boards have a bend in them so they are like the Shoeplate Pro. It is hard for me to say how much of an improvement they are over flat boards because the two singles I row are so different in other ways. I use either a club 1994 Vespoli mid weight or my wife's Van Dusen Advantage flyweight.

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Re: Training Musings and Training Philosophies Thread: Q&A

Post by mikvan52 » May 5th, 2010, 1:59 pm

Nosmo wrote:
mikvan52 wrote:Something new in the world of a foot-stretcher reconfiguration:

http://www.batrowing.com/RDNotes/tabid/153/Default.aspx

http://www.hudsonboatworks.com/fileBin/ ... 55763a.pdf
Mike, what did you get, the pro, the elite, the shims?
The Van Dusen foot boards have a bend in them so they are like the Shoeplate Pro. It is hard for me to say how much of an improvement they are over flat boards because the two singles I row are so different in other ways. I use either a club 1994 Vespoli mid weight or my wife's Van Dusen Advantage flyweight.
I'm comparing the feel in a Hudson equipped with the Batlogic standard molded adaptor and the Nike shoes designed specifically for rowing. (Cost= $400.00 US)
I haven't identified a need for shims as yet (current cost is $55 (I believe))

so: It's the Shoe Plate Pro that I have... (red insert)
See:
http://www.hudsonboatworks.com/fileBin/ ... 55763a.pdf

I ordered them though Hudson and had the shoes spaced as far apart as the footwell in my boat would allow. I'm thinking of transferring this new system to my Fluid (as I like the Fluid for other reasons)...
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American 60's Lwt. 2k record (6:49) •• set WRs for 60' & FM •• ~ now surpassed
repeat combined Masters Lwt & Hwt 1x National Champion E & F class
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Re: Training Musings and Training Philosophies Thread: Q&A

Post by sheehc » May 5th, 2010, 2:26 pm

What are the numbers for an 18/19 year old? I do anywhere from 1.5-1.6xBW for squat...
Pretty sure that is similar to the table that McNeely uses:

U-23 would be 1.3x for squat and deadlift while bench pull is 0.9
Club is 1.4x Squat/Deadlift and 1.05 B Pull
National is 1.7x squat/deadlift with 1.2 B Pull
Olympic is 1.9x squat/deadlift with 1.3 B Pull

All in all, pretty easy numbers to hit if you are consistent with your training and not yet at Olympic volume SS. If you are already there, then it may be rough to put the strength on.
Numbers for weight are very dependend on your height.
Is this to say the longer stroke would allow one to overcome the drag their own body weight imparts on the boat even though the person is physically weaker? How would one attempt that adjustment?

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Re: Training Musings and Training Philosophies Thread: Q&A

Post by Byron Drachman » May 5th, 2010, 3:23 pm

Never mind. I was repeating stuff from earlier postings. A bad sign.
Byron
Last edited by Byron Drachman on May 5th, 2010, 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Training Musings and Training Philosophies Thread: Q&A

Post by macroth » May 5th, 2010, 3:50 pm

sheehc wrote:
U-23 would be 1.3x for squat and deadlift while bench pull is 0.9
Club is 1.4x Squat/Deadlift and 1.05 B Pull
National is 1.7x squat/deadlift with 1.2 B Pull
Olympic is 1.9x squat/deadlift with 1.3 B Pull
I'm not sure why these tables are using the same ratio for squat and deadlift. The vast majority of people can deadlift more than they can squat. A 2xBW deadlift is quite common, much more so than a 2xBW squat.
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