What is the effect of simply being heavier?

[Gammmmo]

Last did erging and set all my PBs about 10 years ago and I suspect I was around 77kg then. More recently I've taken erging up again in an attempt to beat my old PBs at the age of 44. I am much more aerobically "fit" than 10 years ago having had 6 competitive seasons of doing cycle time trials, some running, tri etc. I am currently around 68kg I'd guess. Now, here's the thing...although I've not really tried to test myself to the max recently on the erg I have a rough idea of where I am given the session effort and performance, and....I'm beginning to respect those old PBs and don't think they will be THAT easy to beat! I have no doubt I was physically stronger 10 years ago and arguably physiologically the "rot" has set in going from the age of 35 to 44 in some senses to offset the aerobic gains I have made....but how much difference is the pure weight making? Another thing to add as I've said elsewhere is I'm having to be careful with my lower back on the erg, which is something I NEVER had to do when I was 35. Thoughts???

[hjs]

If that is not fat free mass, it will slow you down. Weight in itself is nothing, its how much that weight can do. The very best ergers are never really heavy, they are all lean and very aerobicly fit.

But havier people, not seldom have more muscle mass, for shorter anaerobic work thats ofcourse helps.

Cycling alone makes a poor rower, upperbody strenght is not there. Arms and back will be limiting factor

[Carl Watts]

As hjs said above, unfortunately both cycling and running do not translate to better times on the Erg. They are great for "Cross training" as is swimming but they don't seem to help much on the rower. The rower appears to be very "sports specific" when it comes to your performance.

The PB's I have were at age 44-45 but then again who knows what I could have achieved at 35, I was not rowing seriously then.

The Erg doesn't penalize you on the weight factor like running or cycling so if the gain is lean mass you have the potential to beat earlier PB's.

[jamesg]

Dropping from 77 to 68 kg looks like a large loss: almost 12 %. Hard too see how you could get the same results.

Increased mass on the erg has two effects: the belly gets in the way of length, and there's more work to do in accelerating that mass twice every stroke. Neither is your problem it would seem, tho' muscle loss might be.

In any case what counts in a 2k is the cruise speed that you can use and maintain. The stroke will be the same as what you can maintain in a 30 minute rate 20 - 24 piece, according to height, but at higher rating. Watt/Rating tells you all about your stroke and lets you train to target.

[Gammmmo]

Watt/Rating tells you all about your stroke and lets you train to target.

Never thought of it like that...thanks.

[Gammmmo]

Just reviving an old thread with an update from nearly 2 years on. At the time of writing I was around 71kg and am now more typically 74kg or so. My observation has been a degredation (I think) in my longer erg ability particularly 60min and HM style efforts. Shorter stuff has remained firmer - even thought 2K and 5K etc are still overwhelmingly aerobic. Might be instead due to less mental toughness and tolerance for the longer stuff, OR the watering down of my previous fitness (up until the end of 2015 I was training 8-10hrs/week on the bike and there would have been some sort of residual component to this even thought all that ceased in 2016 with only occasional bike rides supplementing my ergining, OR....????? Maybe the weight I've gained on the upper body is useless for erging (don't care too much as it was partly for vanity and partly becuase I'm enjoying the different process/journey from weight training having done years and years of pure endurance exercise) and has become a liabilty for moving up and down the slide and/or contributed to worse movement patterns????? Who knows for sure, and won't know until I try for some longer erg PBs but the early signs are there. Could also be age!!!

[Dangerscouse]

I found the longer sessions were very specific and needed to be focused on to improve, and probably to the detriment of shorter sessions.

They improved slowly but it is much more of a mental battle that becomes easier with repitition. I think your increased strength will be helping

[Gammmmo]

I found the longer sessions were very specific and needed to be focused on to improve, and probably to the detriment of shorter sessions.

They improved slowly but it is much more of a mental battle that becomes easier with repitition. I think your increased strength will be helping

When I look back to Dec 2016 when I set my HM PB I clocked an average of 1:56.2/500m (which I struggled to get near yesterday - bailed out at 1:58.2/500m at 17K - probably more there but not THAT much more) I was in the pub drinking cider about 4hrs before and I stopped completely during the HM for a drink! And my trainig diary says "just knew I could do it from the outset". TBF that was probably a good effort though as the average was "1:55.8/500m for ages and then it slid a bit before recovering slightly". The upshot is I just rocked up and did my PB, training was no different. Not saying you're wrong Stu (you are one of the people I do put stock in what they say) but #something# has happened...I think. Will know more soon.

[Dangerscouse]

That's fair comment Paul, we are all different. You have clearly got the ability it's just a matter of dusting it off and re-tuning it.

I seem to be finding macro and micro cycles. In say a 14 day period there are some days I'm firing on all cylinders and some I'm stuck in second gear. Also in a two month period, for example, I can feel unfocused and easily beaten for most of it.

Like Tom was going through a while back, it might just be a macro cycle and soon enough it will come back. It usually comes back with more power when I do break through it.

It was this time last year I was really going through the motions on the erg. Aiming to do 10k and HDing at circa 6.5k or 8k was all too common. Hopefully the same will happen to you when you break through...everyone should do a 12hr challenge

[H2O]

I beat my PBs from 10 years earlier (36 to 46) significantly although being physically much weaker
and doing much less general LSD work (used to bike a lot). The recipe was more intense work
(primarily 3-4 x 1500 with long breaks and 20 min pulls). Technique was bad but maybe a little better and I was fatter than before. The 2000m and 1000m were the weakest, 500 not attemtped.

[Gammmmo]

Another update from my journey. I am now aroudd 79kg having put on 2kg in the last 3-4 months, some of which is fat around my mid section but I am stronger now than ever in the weight room. I have noticed I peaked on the erg for HIT efforts when I was around 77kg and for long distance stuff around 72-73kg. So I think there is a "sweetspot" for different distances with the erg for different people depending on their body composition. My current long distance capability having had many months now of 30K/week on the erg (roughly half what I was doing in 2016/2017) had seen a max effort for 5K go from 18:0x ish to 18:3x ish, but I am definitely seeing visible muscle size increases. Upshot...it's so difficult to be a jack of all trades, I think the best strategy is to just periodise (very much in a macro cycle kind of way to give time for the body to change) depending on goals. Not really a shocking revelation but I think sometimes you have to learn these things the hard way....

[winniewinser]

Interesting read this as I was considering what, if any, physical changes would lead to improved performance.

I'm 6'2" and a little under 80Kg now, no weight work to speak off and I think most people would say I was skinny. I am asking myself whether I need to put on some muscle to get further gains in consistent performance. But then there are lightweights who can pull some really low numbers so maybe it's more dodgy technique than physical characteristics that is holding me back. Still learning having come at this late at 45+.

Will continue to search for improvements.

[hjs]

Interesting read this as I was considering what, if any, physical changes would lead to improved performance.

I'm 6'2" and a little under 80Kg now, no weight work to speak off and I think most people would say I was skinny. I am asking myself whether I need to put on some muscle to get further gains in consistent performance. But then there are lightweights who can pull some really low numbers so maybe it's more dodgy technique than physical characteristics that is holding me back. Still learning having come at this late at 45+.

Will continue to search for improvements.

For a rower you are not skinny, given your height your weight is fine. Plenty of topguys are mid 90kg but taller.
You can gain strenght without gaining much weight and or changing your fat/leanmass discribution. Don,t think you are 10% bodyfat right now

[Dangerscouse]

Interesting read this as I was considering what, if any, physical changes would lead to improved performance.

I'm 6'2" and a little under 80Kg now, no weight work to speak off and I think most people would say I was skinny. I am asking myself whether I need to put on some muscle to get further gains in consistent performance. But then there are lightweights who can pull some really low numbers so maybe it's more dodgy technique than physical characteristics that is holding me back. Still learning having come at this late at 45+.

Will continue to search for improvements.

I have done very little deadlifting over the years, and sporadic leg work due to a dodgy lower back and I'm not sure that it has had too much of a detrimental effect, except for the shorter distances e.g. 1k and under.

With the right training and hard work, erg gains can happen without too much weight training but I do think there is a lot to be gained from Pilates type core exercises two or three times a week. I have been doing this for circa six years and I think i have noticed improvements from it, but obviously I can't be sure