Low rated rowing

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
User avatar
teddyDK
1k Poster
Posts: 159
Joined: October 9th, 2015, 7:15 am

Low rated rowing

Post by teddyDK » December 28th, 2016, 6:01 pm

I have read in alot of thread that in low rated work you should be able to train with the same spi that at the faster pace.
Should i focus on this when training or should i just focus on rowing alot in UT1?

My last 2K was 7:38 236,2 watt. Its around 8,1 watt pr stroke and in 20r it would be 163 watt or 2:09,7.
Whats best to focus on to done this better. SPI, just low rated rowing at UT! HR or something else?

Im a geek for numbers. So i like this calculation :-)

Bob S.
Marathon Poster
Posts: 5142
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 12:00 pm

Re: Low rated rowing

Post by Bob S. » December 28th, 2016, 6:33 pm

teddyDK wrote:I have read in alot of thread that in low rated work you should be able to train with the same spi that at the faster pace.
Should i focus on this when training or should i just focus on rowing alot in UT1?

My last 2K was 7:38 236,2 watt. Its around 8,1 watt pr stroke and in 20r it would be 163 watt or 2:09,7.
Whats best to focus on to done this better. SPI, just low rated rowing at UT! HR or something else?

Im a geek for numbers. So i like this calculation :-)
Use your 2k wattage as a base for the zone instead of HR. UT1 should be 60-70% of the 2k wattage, so 142-165 watts, which would call for 17.5-20.4 spm at that SPI.

Bob S.

User avatar
teddyDK
1k Poster
Posts: 159
Joined: October 9th, 2015, 7:15 am

Re: Low rated rowing

Post by teddyDK » December 28th, 2016, 6:47 pm

Bob S. wrote:
teddyDK wrote:I have read in alot of thread that in low rated work you should be able to train with the same spi that at the faster pace.
Should i focus on this when training or should i just focus on rowing alot in UT1?

My last 2K was 7:38 236,2 watt. Its around 8,1 watt pr stroke and in 20r it would be 163 watt or 2:09,7.
Whats best to focus on to done this better. SPI, just low rated rowing at UT! HR or something else?

Im a geek for numbers. So i like this calculation :-)
Use your 2k wattage as a base for the zone instead of HR. UT1 should be 60-70% of the 2k wattage, so 142-165 watts, which would call for 17.5-20.4 spm at that SPI.

Bob S.
When should i then increase the pace?
And does the same thing work for ex in AT training. Fx 3 x 6' if i should hold the same SPI my pace should be around 1:58 and i cant do that.

User avatar
Carl Watts
Half Marathon Poster
Posts: 3194
Joined: January 8th, 2010, 4:35 pm
Location: NEW ZEALAND

Re: Low rated rowing

Post by Carl Watts » December 28th, 2016, 10:19 pm

Look at the DPS or distance per stroke, this is more relevant and its actually something that is recognized as a variable.

You cannot divide the average power on the monitor by the rating and gets Watts per stroke, its not that simple.The power is per second not per minute. Also its the average power so to take some simple numbers like 20spm, say 1 sec drive and 2 sec recovery and your rowing at 2:00.5 pace or 200W that means your drive is 600W of power or basically 600W of average power per stroke, the peak would be even higher because the power curve is not a perfect square wave.

You can now see why low rating rowing is so much harder for a given pace, your trying to produce much higher power peaks to obtain the same average power.
Carl Watts.
Age:52 Weight: 104kg Height:183cm
Concept 2 Monitor Service Technician & indoor rower.
http://log.concept2.com/profile/863525/log

Bob S.
Marathon Poster
Posts: 5142
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 12:00 pm

Re: Low rated rowing

Post by Bob S. » December 28th, 2016, 11:24 pm

Carl Watts wrote:Look at the DPS or distance per stroke, this is more relevant and its actually something that is recognized as a variable.

You cannot divide the average power on the monitor by the rating and gets Watts per stroke, its not that simple.
It is not Watts per stroke, Carl, it is watt-minutes per stroke - the average amount of work done in each stroke. Of course, watt-minutes are not the commonly used work units, like joules or kilowatt-hours, but it is not an unreasonable term. Since a joule is a watt-second, a watt-minute is 60 joules. If you multiply the SPI by 60 sec/minute, it comes out in the more conventional work unit, joules. For an SPI of 10.0 it would be 600 joules of work done per average stroke.
Last edited by Bob S. on December 28th, 2016, 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Bob S.
Marathon Poster
Posts: 5142
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 12:00 pm

Re: Low rated rowing

Post by Bob S. » December 28th, 2016, 11:34 pm

teddyDK wrote:
When should i then increase the pace?
And does the same thing work for ex in AT training. Fx 3 x 6' if i should hold the same SPI my pace should be around 1:58 and i cant do that.
I don't understand where you get the 1:58. That would be 213.0 watts. The AT power based zone(as opposed to HR based) is 70-80% of the 2k base, which would be a range of 165-189 watts.

User avatar
teddyDK
1k Poster
Posts: 159
Joined: October 9th, 2015, 7:15 am

Re: Low rated rowing

Post by teddyDK » December 29th, 2016, 1:44 am

Bob S. wrote:
teddyDK wrote:
When should i then increase the pace?
And does the same thing work for ex in AT training. Fx 3 x 6' if i should hold the same SPI my pace should be around 1:58 and i cant do that.
I don't understand where you get the 1:58. That would be 213.0 watts. The AT power based zone(as opposed to HR based) is 70-80% of the 2k base, which would be a range of 165-189 watts.
Thanks.

User avatar
Carl Watts
Half Marathon Poster
Posts: 3194
Joined: January 8th, 2010, 4:35 pm
Location: NEW ZEALAND

Re: Low rated rowing

Post by Carl Watts » December 29th, 2016, 5:30 pm

Bob S. wrote:
Carl Watts wrote:Look at the DPS or distance per stroke, this is more relevant and its actually something that is recognized as a variable.

You cannot divide the average power on the monitor by the rating and gets Watts per stroke, its not that simple.
It is not Watts per stroke, Carl, it is watt-minutes per stroke - the average amount of work done in each stroke. Of course, watt-minutes are not the commonly used work units, like joules or kilowatt-hours, but it is not an unreasonable term. Since a joule is a watt-second, a watt-minute is 60 joules. If you multiply the SPI by 60 sec/minute, it comes out in the more conventional work unit, joules. For an SPI of 10.0 it would be 600 joules of work done per average stroke.
Yes okay but still useless information. Pretty much all you need is already on the monitor. If you were to add anything you would have the monitor read and log the ambient temperature and have a stroke counter so you can work out an accurate spm or rating. This is all that's really missing and plenty of cheaper rowers have this on their monitor.
Carl Watts.
Age:52 Weight: 104kg Height:183cm
Concept 2 Monitor Service Technician & indoor rower.
http://log.concept2.com/profile/863525/log

gooseflight
2k Poster
Posts: 256
Joined: April 2nd, 2006, 3:53 am
Location: Scotland

Re: Low rated rowing

Post by gooseflight » December 29th, 2016, 5:42 pm

Carl Watts wrote:stroke counter
ErgData has a stroke counter.

(Who knows, the next C2 may ship without a monitor: just Bluetooth and an ErgData upgrade :idea: )
Roy Walter
M55 | 185cm | 90kg | Journeyman Erger
PBs (2004): 6:38 (2K) | 5:22.9 (mile) | 17:39.6 (5K) | 8323 (30 mins) | 36:52 (10K) | 1:22:03 (HM '05)

User avatar
Citroen
SpamTeam
Posts: 5916
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 3:28 pm
Location: Basingstoke, UK

Re: Low rated rowing

Post by Citroen » December 29th, 2016, 7:44 pm

gooseflight wrote: (Who knows, the next C2 may ship without a monitor: just Bluetooth and an ErgData upgrade :idea: )
That's unlikely since their primary market is gyms and the January new year resolution'er folks like things that tell them how many calories they're burning.

User avatar
Carl Watts
Half Marathon Poster
Posts: 3194
Joined: January 8th, 2010, 4:35 pm
Location: NEW ZEALAND

Re: Low rated rowing

Post by Carl Watts » December 30th, 2016, 2:22 am

gooseflight wrote:
Carl Watts wrote:stroke counter
ErgData has a stroke counter.

(Who knows, the next C2 may ship without a monitor: just Bluetooth and an ErgData upgrade :idea: )
You should not have to buy ErgData just to get a stroke counter. Just about every cheap rower on the market has this in the monitor as standard, its the most basic function you need.Its a 5 second job for C2 to implement it in the firmware. With a graphics display the firmware should allow the display to be totally user configurable via a screen options menu. It looks like RowPro will have this first.

Yes I suggested a couple of years ago now you don't need a monitor anymore, just a Bluetooth pickup and your smart phone that simply runs the monitor as an App. Just recently however I appreciated the PM4 monitor with a logcard when RowPro fell over on me during a row so I had to upload the results from the LogCard. Fact is the monitor always works where as external devices using the likes of Bluetooth or third party Apps fall over from time to time.

There is "Cool" and there is "Reliable", they are seldom the same thing.
Carl Watts.
Age:52 Weight: 104kg Height:183cm
Concept 2 Monitor Service Technician & indoor rower.
http://log.concept2.com/profile/863525/log

User avatar
bisqeet
10k Poster
Posts: 1477
Joined: July 20th, 2015, 3:17 am
Location: Bavaria, Germany

Re: Low rated rowing

Post by bisqeet » December 30th, 2016, 5:20 am

im not too bothered about a stroke counter - i could always export the row as a scv and run a script over it, or im pretty sure theres a few out tools out there that probably do it already for you.
unless theres a ctc event with 100 strokes -> best distance - i'm not sure how important this feature would be.
sure - its a nice to have. just i have never felt it necessary to find out -
an extra column on the row report, why not. not a selling feature i think, but...
a rough pace/distance/ spm calculation would give me a decent guesstemate, i guess that would be enough for my needs.
Dean
2020 Season: 196cm / 96kg : M51
Training Log - ʕʘ̅͜ʘ̅ʔ -Blog
~seven days without rowing makes one weak~

User avatar
Anth_F
Half Marathon Poster
Posts: 2446
Joined: June 29th, 2016, 11:59 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Low rated rowing

Post by Anth_F » December 30th, 2016, 8:49 am

Citroen wrote: and the January new year resolution'er folks like things that tell them how many calories they're burning.


Haha so true!!!!!!!!!
42yo male 5'10 78kg (Rowing since june 9th 2016) PB's 5k 19:22 30min 7518m

My goals are simply to keep fit/get fitter and continue to enjoy rowing on the C2 :)

https://log.concept2.com/log

aussieluke
6k Poster
Posts: 887
Joined: March 20th, 2016, 12:00 am

Re: Low rated rowing

Post by aussieluke » December 30th, 2016, 9:08 am

Carl Watts wrote:
gooseflight wrote:
Carl Watts wrote:stroke counter
ErgData has a stroke counter.

(Who knows, the next C2 may ship without a monitor: just Bluetooth and an ErgData upgrade :idea: )
You should not have to buy ErgData just to get a stroke counter. Just about every cheap rower on the market has this in the monitor as standard, its the most basic function you need.Its a 5 second job for C2 to implement it in the firmware. With a graphics display the firmware should allow the display to be totally user configurable via a screen options menu. It looks like RowPro will have this first.

Yes I suggested a couple of years ago now you don't need a monitor anymore, just a Bluetooth pickup and your smart phone that simply runs the monitor as an App. Just recently however I appreciated the PM4 monitor with a logcard when RowPro fell over on me during a row so I had to upload the results from the LogCard. Fact is the monitor always works where as external devices using the likes of Bluetooth or third party Apps fall over from time to time.

There is "Cool" and there is "Reliable", they are seldom the same thing.
Just FYI ErgData is free.

If you have a PM5 it is simply a case of turning wireless on, starting the app and doing your workout. Can set stroke count on the main screen.
Male, 35, 5'10", 78kg
Started rowing Feb 2016
500m 1:33.2
2000m 6:57.4
5000m 18:47.6

User avatar
teddyDK
1k Poster
Posts: 159
Joined: October 9th, 2015, 7:15 am

Re: Low rated rowing

Post by teddyDK » December 30th, 2016, 9:19 am

Citroen wrote:
gooseflight wrote: (Who knows, the next C2 may ship without a monitor: just Bluetooth and an ErgData upgrade :idea: )
That's unlikely since their primary market is gyms and the January new year resolution'er folks like things that tell them how many calories they're burning.
Good one :-D

Post Reply