Pete Plan 2017

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
mudgeg
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Re: Pete Plan 2017

Post by mudgeg » April 5th, 2017, 8:49 am

@Rowan McSheen - Stu, technically speaking I have finished the BPP. I did the three core sessions of Week 24 so it was only the 'optional', last two sessions I missed! What has really hacked me off is that I had done all of the core sessions and the optional sessions up to week 23. Fell sick with only the very last two optional sessions to go having not even had a sore throat all winter!
Gordon, 60yo, 6', 205lbs

Litewait
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Re: Pete Plan 2017

Post by Litewait » April 5th, 2017, 9:08 am

Tweaked my back yesterday, not sure if it was from the speed intervals on Monday, but feels like a knife between my ribs and no better today. Sleeping last night was a real joy :-( Frustrated feeling of interrupting PP shows I am addicted.

@paul - solid row.
@elk - be too aggressive now and then, better that than holding back.
@stu - continued improvement, week 9 @ 9k remember those numbers you'll be doing 12k when you get there at that pace without a problem.
58/5'9"/152

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Re: Pete Plan 2017

Post by mdpfirrman » April 5th, 2017, 10:30 am

Litewait wrote:Tweaked my back yesterday, not sure if it was from the speed intervals on Monday, but feels like a knife between my ribs and no better today. Sleeping last night was a real joy :-( Frustrated feeling of interrupting PP shows I am addicted.

@paul - solid row.
@elk - be too aggressive now and then, better that than holding back.
@stu - continued improvement, week 9 @ 9k remember those numbers you'll be doing 12k when you get there at that pace without a problem.
Hope you (and Gordon) feel better soon. The lower back, especially, and the erg are tough to manage at times. I found I was hurting my lower back a lot doing sprints. As it turns out, my form was off a bit. When I was doing sprints, I was shortening my drive length and "cheating" more with my upper body and loading too much stress on my lower back. The more I've worked on form, the less this has happened. It's especially important when you're tired to pay attention to form. My problem is that I wasn't finished with the leg drive before I was already pulling with my upper body. I think (at least I'm hoping) that I have better sequencing now. I'd rather slow down my SPM and work good form now during sprints than risk my lower back.

You'll be back at it in a few days Tim! Glad you miss it.
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53 Yrs old, 5' 10" / 185 lbs (177cm/84kg)

Street
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Re: Pete Plan 2017

Post by Street » April 5th, 2017, 6:26 pm

Ouch that was hard work. I bailed on doing it this morning as I was aching from climbing the night before, not sure delaying made much difference and it didn't help I got stitch halfway through the third interval. I managed to hit the 1 million metre mark tonight though! :D

PP 2.3 4x2km/5' rest. Target 1:52.6
29:52.0 / 8,000m / 1:52.0 / 26
7:27.2 / 2,000m / 1:51.8 / 26
7:26.9 / 2,000m / 1:51.7 / 26
7:28.8 / 2,000m / 1:52.2 / 26
7:29.1 / 2,000m / 1:52.2 / 26
Litewait wrote:Frustrated feeling of interrupting PP shows I am addicted.
Haha, that's a good sign! Hope you're able to get back on it soon.

@Elk - Bloody hell, impressive times!

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Anth_F
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Re: Pete Plan 2017

Post by Anth_F » April 6th, 2017, 8:54 am

paul45 wrote:
Hard 5k tomorrow, goal/target over next few weeks sub 20'
I'll be interested to see your results from the hard 5k, Paul.

Have a good one :wink:
42yo male 5'10 78kg (Rowing since june 9th 2016) PB's 5k 19:22 30min 7518m

My goals are simply to keep fit/get fitter and continue to enjoy rowing on the C2 :)

https://log.concept2.com/log

mdpfirrman
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Re: Pete Plan 2017

Post by mdpfirrman » April 6th, 2017, 1:42 pm

Closer I get to joining back in, I have to admit I'm a bit nervous. Though I've never done a HD on a PP session, I've been doing shortened versions of the sessions after heavy lifting. Today, for instance, I was trying to do a hard 5K after a heavy lifting session and only managed to get to 3K (holding a slightly under 2:00 pace). Then I added in 1250 more and had to stop and catch my breath. Then finished with a 500m sprint. Had nothing left. I realize it's different when you're not doing the PP directly after a hard lift, but mentally, I'm thinking, "how did I do THOSE paces??".

Tomorrow, easy SS work and Saturday off and then W1D1 on Sunday!
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53 Yrs old, 5' 10" / 185 lbs (177cm/84kg)

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Re: Pete Plan 2017

Post by optimuswolf » April 6th, 2017, 4:53 pm

Well done everyone. Mike I'm interested in combining lifting and rowing but need to clear out my conservatory to make way for a bench, rack and bar. When I'm ready I'll be coming to you for advice.
Hopefully by that point I'll be a bit stronger on the erg too.

Tonight was session 3 of week 7 BPP. Goal was to reduce SR by 1 from the last go and focus on form. I had the power curve on the PM5 for the first time, which made interesting viewing alongside the golf...

8000m - 32:17 - 2:01.1 - 24

1600@2:00.6 - 23
3200@2:01.1 - 24
4800@2:01.1 - 24
6400@2:01.6 - 25
8000@2:00.8 - 25

My power curves were almost symmetrical at the start, but after around 4000m became more inconsistent, with more points of inflexion and different lengths/maximums.
I also got bad blisters on my hands - I think in focusing on slowing down I gripped the handle too tight! I also am far too tired at the end for what is meant to be a steady row. Do others have issues holding themselved back on steady days?

Gripes aside another week done. Brisk 5k run tomorrow then back to a steady 8.5k erg on Sat.
34, 175lbs, 6'1"
Started rowing Jan '17

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Rowan McSheen
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Re: Pete Plan 2017

Post by Rowan McSheen » April 7th, 2017, 6:35 am

Good morning all.

Mike: come on in, you know you want to!

Wolf: "Do others have issues holding themselves back on steady days?" Nope, not at all, I am the original lazy erger. My issues are with pushing myself on the interval days :)

Talking of which ... BPP week 9 session 2 - 4 x 800m / 2min rest. Says The Man: refer to same session last time, aim for 1 sec faster if poss, otherwise same pace but give it the beans on final rep. Last time round was 2:00 average so anything better would serve.
1:59.4
1.59.0
1:59.1
1:59.7
All 28 spm. Slower than the 1k reps last time and likewise I laboured a bit with burning legs on the final rep. But I was mindful that this session has 4 reps with just 2-min recoveries. A bit disappointed at the final rep but that's another one in the bank, and onwards and upwards ...
Stu 5' 9" 175 lb (give or take a few) born 1960

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Re: Pete Plan 2017

Post by mdpfirrman » April 7th, 2017, 7:15 am

Optimus (Dean) - I've noticed that your SS and your hard sessions aren't that far apart. Based on your PB times (which are really good for your weight), your SS days are very fast. I like to do more "polarized" training. I think the full PP is more about sharpening for a race, so (as Paul pointed out to me), it doesn't really concern me if someone is only doing one round or two rounds of the full PP if their SS days are more in the UT1 zone. Because the BPP is so long (I've never done it) and the SS work speeds / rates are based on your old rates (and you're encouraged to gradually go faster), I'm concerned that you started out on your SS work way too fast. For instance, my SS paces right now are around 2:09 and I don't worry if I'm 22 SPM or even 21 SPM. When I'm feeling good, I might hit a 2:08. On a day I'm really tired, maybe 2:11. Our 5K PBs are similar, yet your SS is 6 full seconds faster than mine, which makes no sense to me. Are you rowing the 3 or 4 days a week that the BPP recommends or more (the optional days)?

I honestly think you're in better shape than you think and perhaps could jump right into the full PP soon. The BPP is for those that have really bad cardio. Based on your early times, I think your cardio is pretty decent already.
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53 Yrs old, 5' 10" / 185 lbs (177cm/84kg)

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Anth_F
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Re: Pete Plan 2017

Post by Anth_F » April 7th, 2017, 7:32 am

Good stuff, Paul.

Your fitness is gradually getting there!!! And big difference now to back when you blew up after 8 mins @ 2:24 :wink:
42yo male 5'10 78kg (Rowing since june 9th 2016) PB's 5k 19:22 30min 7518m

My goals are simply to keep fit/get fitter and continue to enjoy rowing on the C2 :)

https://log.concept2.com/log

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Re: Pete Plan 2017

Post by optimuswolf » April 7th, 2017, 9:43 am

mdpfirrman wrote:Optimus (Dean) - I've noticed that your SS and your hard sessions aren't that far apart. Based on your PB times (which are really good for your weight), your SS days are very fast. I like to do more "polarized" training. I think the full PP is more about sharpening for a race, so (as Paul pointed out to me), it doesn't really concern me if someone is only doing one round or two rounds of the full PP if their SS days are more in the UT1 zone. Because the BPP is so long (I've never done it) and the SS work speeds / rates are based on your old rates (and you're encouraged to gradually go faster), I'm concerned that you started out on your SS work way too fast. For instance, my SS paces right now are around 2:09 and I don't worry if I'm 22 SPM or even 21 SPM. When I'm feeling good, I might hit a 2:08. On a day I'm really tired, maybe 2:11. Our 5K PBs are similar, yet your SS is 6 full seconds faster than mine, which makes no sense to me. Are you rowing the 3 or 4 days a week that the BPP recommends or more (the optional days)?

I honestly think you're in better shape than you think and perhaps could jump right into the full PP soon. The BPP is for those that have really bad cardio. Based on your early times, I think your cardio is pretty decent already.
Thanks for the response MIke. I think you're definitely right that I'm rowing too hard on my SS days. I also think you're right that this is because maybe the Beginners plan isn't right for me. I only row 3 sessions per week (I have small children, like to do a few runs and play football once). I don't really want to up the number of sessions, but only one 'hard' erg per week doesn't feel right, hence I go pretty much all out for all 3 sessions (I do concentrate on technique and SR too, at least during the first half of each SS session!).

Is there a plan for someone who wants to do 3 sessions a week? Can I just stretch the full fat PP into a 6 week cycle?!

I guess another alternative would be to do it similar to a running programme

per week
1x long steady (~10k)
1x interval/pyramid
1x tempo/hard 5k

Cheers.
34, 175lbs, 6'1"
Started rowing Jan '17

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mdpfirrman
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Re: Pete Plan 2017

Post by mdpfirrman » April 7th, 2017, 9:58 am

optimuswolf wrote:
My power curves were almost symmetrical at the start, but after around 4000m became more inconsistent, with more points of inflexion and different lengths/maximums.
I also got bad blisters on my hands - I think in focusing on slowing down I gripped the handle too tight! I also am far too tired at the end for what is meant to be a steady row. Do others have issues holding themselved back on steady days?

Gripes aside another week done. Brisk 5k run tomorrow then back to a steady 8.5k erg on Sat.
I went back and read the BPP (I haven't done that one personally, when I started the PP two years ago, I had already been rowing 3 or 4 days a week for like 6 months so I felt I was ready for the full PP). I see you're probably doing just the 3 days a week right now without the optional stuff yet.

Couple of things. When everyone else is referring to "SS", that means "steady state". Now, technically, you are doing steady row work, but in common rowing terms, you're not technically doing steady state work. I know that sounds confusing, but "steady state" in indoor rowing commonly refers to doing work at a near recovery pace. When I'm not doing the full PP (like now), I tend to row (even in the "off season") six times a week. Three days a week will be hard days and three days will be "SS" days or easier days. Your steady days are not necessarily meant to be as easy as mine (because I'm rowing 3 more days a week).

Now, with that said, I still think that you're probably (based on your PB times) pushing it a tad hard. Like you mentioned, part of that is your SPM is probably too fast. Slow that down from 23 / 24 down to 22. Even if you slow it down to 21, don't worry too much about that (your 6' 1" after all!). I think Tim mentioned this, but it feels artificial at first to relax and slow down the recovery part of the sequencing, but you really have to do that. I would think you're probably a good couple seconds (at least) too fast starting out your rows - thus the unevenness of the curve on your PM. I actually get smoother as I go if I don't start out too fast. I have to slow myself down from going well in to UT1 when I do my SS work (again, you're not as worried about that because only rowing 3 days a week, it's OK if you're in UT1 but you should be feeling better at the end of rows, like in a groove, if you're pacing right to start).

As for the blisters, that's a tough thing to learn. I used to literally have bruises near my chest when I started. Then I saw some guys on instructional videos (who had way superior form to me) and they were quickly getting their hands out by not thumping their chest and their grip was like a hook (without the thumbs wrapped). I've gotten much better at this with time. If you grip the handle lightly with a hook of your fingers and really concentrate on only softly touching the handle with your thumbs (and eventually not hardly at all with the thumbs), the handle tends to slide more through your fingers and you don't get blisters - maybe calluses, but not blisters. Also, you won't experience painful finger stingers. It's momentum with the legs driving the power. The quick sequencing of the hips / body swing and then the pull with light hands rapidly after is where your power comes from. As a new rower, I know I was favoring my upper body way too much to start. When you do that, you tend to grip harder. Your legs have incredibly stamina (more than your upper body). Once you understand that (and I just recently have come to fully understand this), it's like a light bulb went on for me. If your form is correct, you should be able to comfortably row strapless for warmups and longer pieces. Are you rowing strapless yet (or have you tried it)? It will teach you correct sequencing if nothing else (and quick hand returns). If you've not gone strapless, start very slow - like on warmups. Eventually do like 10 minutes. Once you feel really comfortable with it, you won't go back. I strap in for all my hard work but for all my SS rows, I'm unstrapped. Again, your steady rows now are somewhere in between a true SS and a hard row so I would stay strapped in for those and just practice unstrapped for warmups. Once you get the hang of non strapped, your form is more intuitive, even when strapped in.

Yeah - we were both typing at the same time. That idea you had would make sense. One day fast intervals (you could borrow ideas from the full PP or make your own up - I like even shorter ones at times). One intermediate interval day OR a hard row around 5K to 10K and one slow, long day (where you're around 20 seconds slower than your recent PB 2K time or around 12 or so seconds slower than your 5K PB pace). It wouldn't truly be the PP, but that's OK. Put your workouts in the other thread - the what workout have you done today? Or you could just complete the BPP and slow it down on the steady days and continue on. There's no right or wrong answer, just you have to be able to do it without getting hurt or run down.
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ChasinElk
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Re: Pete Plan 2017

Post by ChasinElk » April 7th, 2017, 9:30 pm

Litewait - I like your thinking ( better to aim high and fail then to lowball yourself) I hope that back is healing!!!

Paul nice 5k good to see you back at it

Thanks to all for posting and keeping the motivation!!!

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jackarabit
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Re: Pete Plan 2017

Post by jackarabit » April 8th, 2017, 5:29 pm

Think that HD in Chasin elk's 6k result is shorthand for hard distance day.
There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

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Rowan McSheen
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Re: Pete Plan 2017

Post by Rowan McSheen » April 9th, 2017, 6:12 am

Morning all.

BPP week 9 session 3: 8000m steady. Goals here were to keep the PM on 2:14 at 20-21 spm. Done in a single row at 2:14.5 with hr well inside UT2 throughout and little drift towards the end despite it being a warm day. Pleased with that. I've earned one of those beers in the fridge for tonight.
Stu 5' 9" 175 lb (give or take a few) born 1960

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