LP as a predictor of 500m time

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bonefixer
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LP as a predictor of 500m time

Post by bonefixer » July 1st, 2017, 5:35 pm

Anyone got any predictors? I've seen 1:20 as my LP during a warm up power10. Should my 500 PB be better than it is?
Bonefixer, 47M, 83kg, 183cm

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bonefixer
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Re: LP as a predictor of 500m time

Post by bonefixer » July 1st, 2017, 6:18 pm

paul45 wrote:
bonefixer wrote:Anyone got any predictors? I've seen 1:20 as my LP during a warm up power10. Should my 500 PB be better than it is?






The fact you found 1:28.6 easy, your PB should hurt in the last 150-100m, I mean hurt, so yes it should be much better.

Try 4 x 250m/7'30r @ 1:26 ave for the 1st 3 reps see whats left last rep, Sam Loch session.

11 weeks ago I couldn't hold 1:41/2 pace for 200m, check my last session 375m @ 1:34.4 ave, my 500m PB is 1:35.0,
it hurt, I mean really hurt.
When I've finished my current round of long distance PBs I will. Do you really mean 7min30sec rest between intervals though? Seems very long for 43" work.
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edinborogh
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Re: LP as a predictor of 500m time

Post by edinborogh » July 1st, 2017, 7:31 pm

what is LP guys?
who is Sam Lochs?
what training are you talking about? is it 500m oriented?

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jackarabit
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Re: LP as a predictor of 500m time

Post by jackarabit » July 1st, 2017, 8:38 pm

Bonefixer writes:

When I've finished my current round of long distance PBs I will. Do you really mean 7min30sec rest between intervals though? Seems very long for 43" work.
Paul, in a very recent post you cite 4x250m/7'R as a Sam Loch buttbreaker. Here you say on 7:30 rest? And also earlier 4x300m/9'R. I know you follow the progress of the sprint masters very closely. What is the reasoning supporting what appear to be very long rest periods?
There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

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lindsayh
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Re: LP as a predictor of 500m time

Post by lindsayh » July 1st, 2017, 11:01 pm

edinborogh wrote: what is LP guys?
who is Sam Lochs?
what training are you talking about? is it 500m oriented?
LP = Low Pull - it is the lowest 500m split you can pull normally after 3 to 5 strokes as hard as you can go. You need a few goes to get it as low as you can go.
Sam Loch is an Australian Olympic rower who has recently been documenting on his Instagram thread an attempt on the 500m WR (which is 25yo and 1:10.5). His power sessions are repeats of very short (ie <500m) pieces with long rests between at sub 1:10 pace. Shawn Baker is here doing similar things with similar goals for 500m and shorter. Pretty much what this thread is all about.
In my understanding the physiological benefits of the long rests is to allow full recovery of the muscle energy systems before the repeat.
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PBs (65y+) 1 min 349m, 500m 1:29.8, 1k 3:11.7 2k 6:47.4, 5km 18:07.9, 30' 7928m, 10k 37:57.2, 60' 15368m

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Re: LP as a predictor of 500m time

Post by GJS » July 2nd, 2017, 3:03 am

bonefixer wrote:Anyone got any predictors? I've seen 1:20 as my LP during a warm up power10. Should my 500 PB be better than it is?
Should be worse. :lol:
LP + about 10 and a little above will be where most folk in good condition fall, I reckon.

I suspect it's a case of your LP being soft. Likely a matter of technique.
Max drag and 50 + spm will get you there.
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Re: LP as a predictor of 500m time

Post by Citroen » July 2nd, 2017, 3:19 am

edinborogh wrote:what is LP guys?
Low Pull is a stupidly macho way to show how hard you can tug the chain against the highest available drag. It's entirely pointless and tells you nothing useful.

My LP is 1:24.

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Re: LP as a predictor of 500m time

Post by edinborogh » July 2nd, 2017, 3:22 am

lindsayh wrote:
edinborogh wrote: what is LP guys?
who is Sam Lochs?
what training are you talking about? is it 500m oriented?
LP = Low Pull - it is the lowest 500m split you can pull normally after 3 to 5 strokes as hard as you can go. You need a few goes to get it as low as you can go.
Sam Loch is an Australian Olympic rower who has recently been documenting on his Instagram thread an attempt on the 500m WR (which is 25yo and 1:10.5). His power sessions are repeats of very short (ie <500m) pieces with long rests between at sub 1:10 pace. Shawn Baker is here doing similar things with similar goals for 500m and shorter. Pretty much what this thread is all about.
In my understanding the physiological benefits of the long rests is to allow full recovery of the muscle energy systems before the repeat.
thanks for taking the time and explaining lindsayh. much appreciated.
i like steady long sessions. every 2000 meters or so ill chose a moment and for 150 meters will pull as hard as i can ( my best split so far was 1:58 ) and then 100-150 meters with the highest stroke can that i can with enough power ( making shore im not "shortening" the drive ) and my highest was 32spm.
my issue with the described "give it all you can" sessions is that my knee is KILLING me, i am out of breath and its taxing my whole plan for the day. i cant recover fast enough if i do those short, "full on" sessions.
i have the guy's youtube videos and he is a super machine of power. i guess that he has a very very good anaerobic capacity so he only needs to maintain it and this is how he has the time to dedicate to all those power lifts and heavy weights. makes sense?

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Re: LP as a predictor of 500m time

Post by hjs » July 2nd, 2017, 4:52 am

Citroen wrote:
edinborogh wrote:what is LP guys?
Low Pull is a stupidly macho way to show how hard you can tug the chain against the highest available drag. It's entirely pointless and tells you nothing useful.

My LP is 1:24.
This is the same like saying, it does not matter if you can run 43 km per hour for a sprinter.

A low pull is very telling and the number one predictor on a 100m. For 500 again very important, your lp should be a good bit below your 500 m av. Think 8/10 seconds.

For untrained rowers, low pull is a very good indicator for 2k potential. Once trained less so. Relation between 500 and 2k is ofcourse clear but not super big.

Re long rest, the idea is to get full 100% recovery. Its not interval work, but more single pieces. If it works? Hard to tell, Shawn does nothing of that stuff. Only single pieces, or 100 reps. Sam did use it, but did not improve in the last stages of his attempt. Squats, deadslifts and some rowing helpt him the most. You are never strong enough for sprints.
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Re: LP as a predictor of 500m time

Post by bonefixer » July 2nd, 2017, 6:59 am

GJS wrote:
bonefixer wrote:Anyone got any predictors? I've seen 1:20 as my LP during a warm up power10. Should my 500 PB be better than it is?
Should be worse. :lol:
LP + about 10 and a little above will be where most folk in good condition fall, I reckon.

I suspect it's a case of your LP being soft. Likely a matter of technique.
Max drag and 50 + spm will get you there.
You might be right about my LP - I've never set out to do one formally, and 1:20 is with my usual lowish drag factor. Perhaps I'll give it a go with damper on 10.
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Re: LP as a predictor of 500m time

Post by jackarabit » July 2nd, 2017, 10:04 am

Hjs writes:
Re long rest, the idea is to get full 100% recovery. Its not interval work, but more single pieces. If it works? Hard to tell, Shawn does nothing of that stuff. Only single pieces, or 100 reps. Sam did use it, but did not improve in the last stages of his attempt. Squats, deadslifts and some rowing helpt him the most. You are never strong enough for sprints.
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Re: LP as a predictor of 500m time

Post by gcanyon » July 2nd, 2017, 11:56 pm

I'll throw in my numbers for comparison: my LP is 570 watts/1:25 pace. My 500m is currently 1:38.3. I think that means some people think I'm slacking off on my 500m ;-)

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Re: LP as a predictor of 500m time

Post by hjs » July 3rd, 2017, 3:14 am

Paul, you have been erging of and on for years, and talk talk and talk about what other say and do.

But yet I have to see one free rate piece done at max pace and pacing.........

Do some walks first, and do not compare yourselve with people of olympic level, thats just silly to put mildly.
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Re: LP as a predictor of 500m time

Post by hjs » July 3rd, 2017, 3:38 am

paul45 wrote:
hjs wrote:Paul, you have been erging of and on for years, and talk talk and talk about what other say and do.

But yet I have to see one free rate piece done at max pace and pacing.........

Do some walks first, and do not compare yourselve with people of olympic level, thats just silly to put mildly.



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Congrats, now start working on it.
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