Training for BIRC December 9th

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
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NavigationHazard
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Re: Training for BIRC December 9th

Post by NavigationHazard » November 30th, 2017, 12:39 pm

16 x 500m r32 on 1:40 this afternoon:

01] 1:39.8 352w r32 HR range 086-143 bpm
02] 1:39.9 351w r31 HR range 098-148 bpm
03] 1:39.8 352w r31 HR range 103-150 bpm
04] 1:39.6 354w r31 HR range 107-151 bpm
05] 1:39.8 352w r31 HR range 105-153 bpm
06] 1:39.9 351w r32 HR range 113-154 bpm
07] 1:39.8 352w r32 HR range 119-155 bpm
08] 1:39.7 353w r32 HR range 115-155 bpm
09] 1:39.9 351w r31 HR range 113-156 bpm
10] 1:39.6 354w r31 HR range 119-157 bpm
11] 1:39.9 351w r31 HR range 116-156 bpm
12] 1:39.9 351w r31 HR range 122-156 bpm
13] 1:39.9 351w r31 HR range 119-157 bpm
14] 1:40.1 349w r31 HR range 121-157 bpm
15] 1:39.9 351w r31 HR range 119-156 bpm
16] 1:29.4 490w r36 HR range 125-164 bpm and no, that's not a typo in the pace column.

8000m total work distance in 26:26.9, 1:39.1 pace 359w r31 [PM5].

I'd like to think this bodes well for BRIC in just over a week. But TBH I have no idea how this is going to translate into a 2k on race day. I'm >really< reluctant to do an actual trial, not least because the last one I did literally put me in hospital for a week. I've learned from that, but still....
62 MH 6' 6"

jbhop5857
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Re: Training for BIRC December 9th

Post by jbhop5857 » November 30th, 2017, 1:11 pm

@navigationalhazard - I mean this sincerely, how did you train your body to be able to get into a position where you can push it hard enough to go the hospital? Or is it more mental at that stage being able to deal with the pain?

By the way - Awesome job.

David
Age: 38
6ft.
235lbs.
2k: 6:50.2 - 2017 Yeah, I count the tenths on this one.
5K: 18:51 - 2017
6K: 23:28 - 2015
10K: 39:49 - 2017
HM: 1:22:48 - 2017
30 Min: 7937 - 2017
60 Min: 15033 - 2015
FM: 3:01:253 - 2017

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NavigationHazard
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Re: Training for BIRC December 9th

Post by NavigationHazard » November 30th, 2017, 1:23 pm

The problem was a post-exercise hypoglycemic episode. For us type II diabetics, they can occur anywhere up to 48 hours or so after strenuous exercise. Not only do they require treatment in their own right, they can mimic some of the same symptoms as strokes or epilepsy or brain tumors....
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jbhop5857
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Re: Training for BIRC December 9th

Post by jbhop5857 » November 30th, 2017, 4:48 pm

@navigationhazard - OK, get it. Sorry you have to deal with that.

David
Age: 38
6ft.
235lbs.
2k: 6:50.2 - 2017 Yeah, I count the tenths on this one.
5K: 18:51 - 2017
6K: 23:28 - 2015
10K: 39:49 - 2017
HM: 1:22:48 - 2017
30 Min: 7937 - 2017
60 Min: 15033 - 2015
FM: 3:01:253 - 2017

H2O
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Re: Training for BIRC December 9th

Post by H2O » November 30th, 2017, 7:29 pm

NavigationHazard wrote:The problem was a post-exercise hypoglycemic episode. For us type II diabetics, they can occur anywhere up to 48 hours or so after strenuous exercise. ...
Must have been a one off unfortunate occurrence. After all you are doing strenuous exercise on a daily basis.

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NavigationHazard
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Re: Training for BIRC December 9th

Post by NavigationHazard » December 1st, 2017, 3:34 am

More like a constant danger. When the internal mechanisms that regulate your body's blood glucose levels are damaged, you have to be extremely wary. If the timing of meals vis-a-vis workouts is off by even a little bit, you can have problems. Obviously, what you're doing in workouts for how long has ramifications. Changes in whatever you're eating can also have effects, since different foods digest at different rates. Hydration levels matter, since you're measuring glucose dissolved in blood and levels depend in part on how much plasma volume there is. Sleep patterns matter too (and to confound things, there's something called the Somogyi effect: a kind of 'rebound' in which the body compensates for nighttime hypoglycemia by over-releasing counter-regulatory enzymes that stimulate glucose production and you can wake up with artificially high blood sugar). If you take medication to help regulate things, as I do, dosage levels need to be considered in context and may well need reduction to reduce the risk of hypoglycemia.

Moreover, all of this sort of thing needs to be considered over time. A big X factor for power-endurance athletes is glycogen replacement, which may not occur at the same rate in diabetics as in non-diabetics (other things equal) and which depends hugely on what food sources are consumed when. [See e.g.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3248697/]. Basically, you're way more prone to 'bonking' both during workouts and during the post-exercise 'window' of up to 48 hrs or so, during which you're replenishing the stored glycogen....

Etc. etc. etc.

It's all terribly complicated and, to be honest, a bit daunting. I try to manage as best I can but....
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le grand fromage
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Re: Training for BIRC December 9th

Post by le grand fromage » December 1st, 2017, 7:08 am

Scary stuff Nav , I'm always hoping it doesn't come my way as it's seems hereditary in my family, Dad, Grand Mother, Great Aunts, Cousin's etc. Generally when I'm getting any tests done at the quacks I mention it and get tested for diabetes as well, so far so good.

Yesterday's fayre was a 3(6x30" ON 1' Act Recovery OFF) with 5 minutes rest between sets. I Really really hate these types of sessions, god knows how you keep cracking out stuff like this Nav. What kept me going was knowing the benefit you get from these, which I only really learnt post the 100k Team WR which I did back in October. Noticed a big step change in my power output after I'd done 15 strokes at about 90% max with 3 minutes rest and repeat 100 times for 4 hours or so :lol:

Gave myself a target of 475/480/485w for each respective set. Had a few spooky finishes in the 1st set where the PM gave me 474 but I'd swear I was above during the last stroke, other than that all good. Put a few extra beans in the tin for the last 3. Warmed up with a 20' Fletcher

Scores on the doors
3(6x30" ON 1' OFF Active Recovery)R5

1st Set
1:29.8 - 34 - 483
1:30.3 - 32 - 474
1:30.3 - 32 - 474
1:30.3 - 32 - 474
1:29.8 - 34 - 483
1:29.2 - 34 - 492 - HR 156

Act Rev 1304 - 3' - 1:29.9 - 33 - 1001 - 482

2nd Set
1:29.8 - 34 - 483
1:29.2 - 34 - 492
1:29.8 - 32 - 483
1:29.8 - 32 - 483
1:29.8 - 34 - 483
1:29.2 - 34 - 492 - HR 155

Act Rec 1241 - 3' - 1:29.6 - 33 - 1004 - 486

3rd Set
1:29.2 - 34 - 492
1:29.2 - 34 - 492
1:29.2 - 32 - 492
1:28.7 - 34 - 501
1:28.2 - 34 - 509
1:27.2 - 34 - 528 - HR 157

Act Rec 1234 - 3' - 1:28.5 - 33 - 1016 - 504
2k - "into that void of silence where we cry without sound"

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NavigationHazard
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Re: Training for BIRC December 9th

Post by NavigationHazard » December 1st, 2017, 4:09 pm

I think my record for 30/30 intervals is 180 reps. I don't remember the pace offhand. But that was a few years back, pre-shoulder surgery and pre-diabetes. Also pre-geriatric.... I know I've done 120 x 250m at one point as well....

30 minutes this morning on the recline cycle at 345 nominal watts, cadence 54, average HR 136 and peak in the low 140s. Meh.
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Re: Training for BIRC December 9th

Post by H2O » December 2nd, 2017, 3:58 am

@NavHaz:
Awful that you have to deal with this. I have the greatest respect for the extreme amount of discipline required to perform with that handicap.

le grand fromage
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Re: Training for BIRC December 9th

Post by le grand fromage » December 3rd, 2017, 3:16 pm

Race start pratice for me to-day 16x250 R90s. Gave myself a target of 455w for each and also wanted to be up to 455w in 4-5 strokes from a standing start. Nailed all the starts although I was late on one, a couple I was up to speed in 3-4 strokes which was pleasing. Best 1st pull was 316w but most were high 200s. Got ahead of myself a bit midway through when I pulled 477w so eased back a bit. Must be a sign of experience as in the 'old' day's I would have gone to destruction and HD'd before I'd got to the end. Pretty much maxed the last trying to keep the rate down to 32.

2k warm up - 1:43.9 - 28 - 311 - 6:55.9 - HR 139

16x 250 R90s

1:31.8 - 34 - 452 - 132
1:31.4 - 33 - 458 - 138
1:31.4 - 32 - 458 - 140
1:31.0 - 32 - 464 - 142
1:30.6 - 33 - 471 - 144
1:30.2 - 32 - 477 - 145
1:31.2 - 32 - 461 - 143
1:31.0 - 33 - 464 - 144
1:31.0 - 32 - 464 - 146
1:30.6 - 32 - 471 - 148
1:30.6 - 32 - 471 - 147
1:30.6 - 32 - 471 - 148
1:30.2 - 33 - 477 - 150
1:29.8 - 32 - 483 - 151
1:28.8 - 32 - 500 - 153
1:27.4 - 34 - 524 - 155

4k - 1:30.4 - 32 - 473 - 12:03.8
2k - "into that void of silence where we cry without sound"

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NavigationHazard
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Re: Training for BIRC December 9th

Post by NavigationHazard » December 4th, 2017, 2:08 pm

CTC r24 this afternoon, more out of frustration than anything else. It seems that I don't deal with travel very well these days, and a weekend trip to Berlin wasn't great for my eating/sleeping/exercise schedule....

2k warmup in 6:49.7.

1' 304m 1:38.6 pace 364w r24
[1' rest]
2' 602m 1:39.6 pace 354w r24
[2' rest]
3' 903m 1:39.6 pace 354w r24
[3' rest]
1' 311m 1:36.4 pace 390w r24
[1' rest]
2' 606m 1:39.0 pace 361w r24
[2' rest]
3' 902m 1:39.7 pace 352w r24

3626m in 12:00.0 total work time, 1:39.2 pace 358w r24 [PM5; ErgData]. I think my HR hit 165 bpm on the last one...

Blergh. I am not optimistic about my chances of coping well with my upcoming Ryan Air flight to London for BRIC....
62 MH 6' 6"

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NavigationHazard
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Re: Training for BIRC December 9th

Post by NavigationHazard » December 6th, 2017, 2:52 pm

Fitness Matters Workout of the Week this morning, motivated by 1) the desire to see how my body copes with the demands of an early morning session; and 2) immense frustration after about six abortive attempts to do a 2k test at something like 1:45 r24 x 3 1/2 and 1:30 for the last 250m. I just couldn't get my head past the 750m mark or so and kept handling down. Eventually I resolved to do the WOW at r24 as a surrogate. I didn't track HR but did watch it out of the corner of my eye. Typical HR range was 105 to 110 bpm at the start of an interval and something in the high 140s to finish.

Clearly the power is there, if I can figure out how mentally to deploy it in a race and my balky broken-down diabetic body will cooperate. At the moment, I'm expecting nothing. That way, if something good happens I can be pleasantly disappointed.

8 x 1' on 1:30 rest, negative-splitted:

1] 59.3 secs 1:38.8 pace r24
2] 59.7 secs 1:39.5 pace r23
3] 59.6 secs 1:39.3 pace r23
4] 59.1 secs 1:38.5 pace r23
5] 58.7 secs 1:37.8 pace r23
6] 58.3 secs 1:37.1 pace r24
7] 57.4 secs 1:35.6 pace r24
8] 56.6 secs 1:34.3 pace r23

2400m total work distance in 7:48.8 net elapsed work time; 1:37.6 pace r23 [PM5; ErgData]. I added 30' on the recline cycle at 322 watts. Cadence 47, HR average 128.

I will do something light tomorrow.
62 MH 6' 6"

lindsayh
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Re: Training for BIRC December 9th

Post by lindsayh » December 6th, 2017, 7:09 pm

NavigationHazard wrote:Clearly the power is there, if I can figure out how mentally to deploy it in a race and my balky broken-down diabetic body will cooperate. At the moment, I'm expecting nothing. That way, if something good happens I can be pleasantly disappointed. I will do something light tomorrow.
Very best of luck Jon - IMO there is a bigger risk from over doing rather than under this week - it all looks good. I reckon that your second go at the CTC is a pretty good guide to a very productive trip to London. Love to be there - maybe 2018!
Lindsay
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PBs (65y+) 1 min 349m, 500m 1:29.8, 1k 3:11.7 2k 6:47.4, 5km 18:07.9, 30' 7928m, 10k 37:57.2

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NavigationHazard
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Re: Training for BIRC December 9th

Post by NavigationHazard » December 7th, 2017, 7:06 am

Last pre-BRIC workout. I just >had< to revisit the Russell Crowe workout I'd aborted about six times on Wednesday, namely a 2k at 1:45 r24 x 3 1/2 and unleash hell on the last 250m.

Here's how that went down. I set the splits for 250m, on account of the last....
Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
0:51.5 0250m 1:43.0 320 1401 23
0:52.0 0500m 1:44.0 311 1369 23
0:52.1 0750m 1:44.2 309 1363 23
0:52.5 1000m 1:45.0 302 1339 23
0:52.4 1250m 1:44.8 304 1345 23
0:51.5 1500m 1:43.0 320 1401 24
0:51.6 1750m 1:43.2 318 1394 23
0:44.5 2000m 1:29.0 496 2006 35

6:48.1 2000m 1:42.0 330 1433 25

Rating was actually 24.6 by stroke count (167 total strokes).

Mission accomplished. Thanks in advance to everyone who's been following my struggle to train through the diabetes. I have absolutely no idea what will happen on Saturday, and I'm mentally prepared to handle down if necessary should I feel like I'm endangering myself. I'll give it an honest shot; everything depends on my poor battered body cooperating....

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Dangerscouse
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Re: Training for BIRC December 9th

Post by Dangerscouse » December 7th, 2017, 7:42 am

Best of luck to you Nav, and to everyone else who is competing.
44 Years Old; 6' 4"; 95kg; Liverpool, England 2k= 6:38; 5k= 17:29; 6k= 21:54; 10k= 36:21 30mins= 8,242m 60mins= 16,317m HM= 1:18:40; FM= 2:49:39; 50k= 3:28:18; 75k=5:29:15; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

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