Pete Plan Thread

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
Rowlers
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by Rowlers » August 21st, 2018, 10:41 am

mdpfirrman wrote:
August 16th, 2018, 2:05 pm
@ Roel - your strength/power per stroke looks to be pretty consistent (don't ask me how I figured that out but I think I took the Watts calculator and divided total Watts based on pace divided by SR and then multiplied on your faster row and it was consistent, so that's good). I'd just be cautious. This theme could start an entirely new thread/debate. Low rate work (low SR work) has it's place but you just don't want to get in bad habits. If your hands are always moving and you feel OK, feel free to do whatever you like. In at least the full PP, Marston suggests 22 to 24 SR for SS work. I went a while two years ago working a great deal with a higher DF and lower SR (18/19). Come race season, I had a very hard time rating up (higher SR). I found that I had developed habits of pausing at the top and bottom of the rower. Exaggerated lean back, too far forward with knees over the ankles, lowering the chain on the way back, sloppy posture (you should sit upright on the rower with good posture), etc.

Some tell tale signs if you're doing things wrong: Can you row unstrapped without falling off the back? If not, you're spending too much time leaning back and wasting momentum. Do the fronts of your shins ache? Might be a sign you're leaning too far forward and overreaching with your knees past vertical to your feet (over 90 degrees). Are you spending any time up on your balls of your feet, too much time up on the balls of your feet? You shouldn't spend hardly any time up on the balls of your feet. That's the "sign" to start the next stroke immediately once you reach the balls of your feet. Are your straps coming loose? If so, you're likely leaning too far back and pulling them loose with your feet. They shouldn't come loose while you do SS work (or sprints for that matter). Is your rear chaffed? Same thing, too much leaning back and sloppy posture.

Sorry to ramble on, but if none of those are issues, then it's what's comfortable for you. You must have the patience of a saint! I couldn't do rows at that rate. Nice on the 750s, that was solid!!
Thanks Mike! I analyzed your feedback and most of it I think I do right. So no aching shins, no knees over the ankles and no time spend on the balls of my feet. Before I started the BPP though, I spend a few weeks focusing on technique and started rowing unstrapped which went quite ok. After your comments, I tried again rowing unstrapped and literally fell of the rower straight away :-) So that clearly indicates too much lean back. I tried to correct and increased the SR a good bit which felt actually quite a lot better than the lower SR.

By increasing the SR to 21/22, I automatically increased my pace without feeling as it would require more effort. It was a lot easier to maintain the pace and went a bit faster without the extra effort. Below the results:

BPP 2.3 - 5500m

Image

BPP 3.1 - 6000m

Image
Roel, 32 yrs old, 176cm / 75kg (5' 9" / 165 lbs)

Started BPP 06/08/2018 @78kg and Finished 09/02/2019 @75kg.

Image

mdpfirrman
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by mdpfirrman » August 21st, 2018, 1:55 pm

@ Roel - that looks like a solid workout, around the same power per stroke, but much more like the SR you should have on SS work! Glad that felt easier for you. Lean back at the end, by itself isn't a bad thing, you should do it, but you just have to have the right sequence and get your hands back fast to keep balanced. I fell off the rower, too, when I first tried doing it strapless, so I had too much wasted backward momentum as well.

5K PP (W4/D2) - Did the 10K SS today on the rower. Woke up and the back felt pretty decent. I spent a lot of time working on stretching and I have this new nifty Percussion Massager that I was working out the sore spots yesterday and today I felt pretty back to normal. Actually, probably slightly better than I have in a few weeks. I have really cruddy right knee, which ends up making my legs a bit uneven (the left is longer than the right, I really feel it on the rower). I think this, over time, tends to make my back hurt. Just have to spend more time tending to it and being aware of it, especially on these more grueling plans.

Very slow work for SS today. 2:13 or so -- 22 SPM. Started out really slow and by the end was around 2:11/2:10 pace mostly, but the key is the back feels solid afterward. I'm happy with that.
Image

Mike Pfirrman
53 Yrs old, 5' 10" / 185 lbs (177cm/84kg)

RayOfSunshine
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by RayOfSunshine » August 21st, 2018, 5:00 pm

@ Roel, solid work! I'm a huge fan of rowing strapless. One of my favorite workouts is 30r20 strapless. 600 strokes, making each one count. I don't use the ErgData app all the time, but I do on restricted pieces.

@ Mike, great news about your back. It's my day off and, damn, do I need it. My back feels tender.
48M, 175cm/5'9", 74.8kg/165lbs
Neptune Beach, FL/Boone, NC

bob.haffner
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by bob.haffner » August 21st, 2018, 5:47 pm

mdpfirrman wrote:
August 21st, 2018, 1:55 pm
5K PP (W4/D2) - Did the 10K SS today on the rower. Woke up and the back felt pretty decent. I spent a lot of time working on stretching and I have this new nifty Percussion Massager that I was working out the sore spots yesterday and today I felt pretty back to normal. Actually, probably slightly better than I have in a few weeks. I have really cruddy right knee, which ends up making my legs a bit uneven (the left is longer than the right, I really feel it on the rower). I think this, over time, tends to make my back hurt. Just have to spend more time tending to it and being aware of it, especially on these more grueling plans.

Very slow work for SS today. 2:13 or so -- 22 SPM. Started out really slow and by the end was around 2:11/2:10 pace mostly, but the key is the back feels solid afterward. I'm happy with that.
Good job, Mike! Hope you feel better


Cycle 4, Week 1 of PP
8 x 500m for me today. I'm continuing to turn the screw on these intervals. The target was 1:42

---------------2018-06-10----2018-07-01----2018-07-25----2018-08-21-----
500------------01:54.9--------01:51.2--------01:45.7--------01:42.3--------
500------------01:54.2--------01:50.2--------01:45.4--------01:42.0--------
500------------01:52.3--------01:50.0--------01:45.9--------01:42.1--------
500------------01:55.2--------01:50.7--------01:45.4--------01:42.3--------
500------------01:54.7--------01:48.1--------01:45.2--------01:42.1--------
500------------01:53.4--------01:48.1--------01:46.0--------01:42.1--------
500------------01:52.6--------01:48.2--------01:44.4--------01:42.3--------
500------------01:41.3--------01:30.2--------01:34.5--------01:38.4--------

AVGs-----------01:52.3--------01:47.0--------01:44.0--------01:41.7--------
I'm a little old, kinda heavy and somewhat tall... 2 outta 3 ain't bad

Been rowing on-and-off for a few years. I have a "sub 6:30 2k by the end of 2018" goal

Training Log

RayOfSunshine
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by RayOfSunshine » August 21st, 2018, 7:00 pm

@ Bob Awesome work. I see that your average is close your final rep from 10 weeks ago. Wow!
48M, 175cm/5'9", 74.8kg/165lbs
Neptune Beach, FL/Boone, NC

bob.haffner
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by bob.haffner » August 21st, 2018, 7:12 pm

RayOfSunshine wrote:
August 21st, 2018, 7:00 pm
@ Bob Awesome work. I see that your average is close your final rep from 10 weeks ago. Wow!
Thanks, Ray! I definitely took it easy on that 6/10 workout because of my back, but I'm happy about my progress and the pacing on this one

How are you liking PP?
I'm a little old, kinda heavy and somewhat tall... 2 outta 3 ain't bad

Been rowing on-and-off for a few years. I have a "sub 6:30 2k by the end of 2018" goal

Training Log

bob.haffner
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by bob.haffner » August 21st, 2018, 7:15 pm

Also, 1:42 puts me at my 2k pace - 3 seconds so that has me feeling good.
I'm a little old, kinda heavy and somewhat tall... 2 outta 3 ain't bad

Been rowing on-and-off for a few years. I have a "sub 6:30 2k by the end of 2018" goal

Training Log

RayOfSunshine
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Joined: December 15th, 2017, 9:45 am

Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by RayOfSunshine » August 21st, 2018, 7:49 pm

bob.haffner wrote:
August 21st, 2018, 7:12 pm

How are you liking PP?
So far, PP has been solid. I will do a 2k TT at the end of September (after cycle 2) at sea level. Then, I'll be coming back to the mountains in October where I'll work on longer restricted pieces mixed in with some longer interval sessions (e.g. 2 x 5k). Basically, it'll be the 5k PP modified.
48M, 175cm/5'9", 74.8kg/165lbs
Neptune Beach, FL/Boone, NC

bob.haffner
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by bob.haffner » August 21st, 2018, 11:24 pm

RayOfSunshine wrote:
August 21st, 2018, 7:49 pm
So far, PP has been solid. I will do a 2k TT at the end of September (after cycle 2) at sea level. Then, I'll be coming back to the mountains in October where I'll work on longer restricted pieces mixed in with some longer interval sessions (e.g. 2 x 5k). Basically, it'll be the 5k PP modified.
Good deal. You've put in a lot of work and its gonna pay off in September I bet. I'm started to do some much needed longer sessions myself
I'm a little old, kinda heavy and somewhat tall... 2 outta 3 ain't bad

Been rowing on-and-off for a few years. I have a "sub 6:30 2k by the end of 2018" goal

Training Log

RayOfSunshine
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by RayOfSunshine » August 22nd, 2018, 12:57 pm

PP 2.1 Pyramid, DF = 110, Target = 1:53.9

14:55.3 - 4,000m - 1:51.9 - 32
0:56.9 - 250m - 1:53.8 - 32
1:53.6 - 500m - 1:53.6 - 31
2:50.3 - 750m - 1:53.5 - 29
3:47.0 - 1,000m - 1:53.5 - 30
2:47.9 - 750m - 1:51.9 - 30
1:50.7 - 500m - 1:50.7 - 32
0:49.1 - 250m - 1:38.2 - 44

RowPro couldn't handle the varying intervals. Other than that, I'm pleased with my 1st pass through.
48M, 175cm/5'9", 74.8kg/165lbs
Neptune Beach, FL/Boone, NC

Street
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by Street » August 22nd, 2018, 5:41 pm

RayOfSunshine wrote:
August 22nd, 2018, 12:57 pm
RowPro couldn't handle the varying intervals. Other than that, I'm pleased with my 1st pass through.
I've struggled with the intervals on RowPro and made a few mistakes so didn't even try to program in the pyramid this time round. I need to have a play and work it out properly really. Solid pacing and strong finish though!
bob.haffner wrote:
August 21st, 2018, 5:47 pm
8 x 500m for me today. I'm continuing to turn the screw on these intervals. The target was 1:42
Impressive times on the 500s! Quite an increase over the last time you did it too, good work. :)

I was quite pleased with today's session overall but a bit disappointed I didn't manage to go under 7:30 on the last rep. I just didn't have anything left in me after climbing last night and a weights session this morning. Roll on tomorrow mornings nice slow SS.

PP2.3 4x2km. Target 1:53.5
30:08.9 - 8,000m - 1:53.0 - 25
7:32.9 - 2,000m - 1:53.2 - 25
7:32.6 - 2,000m - 1:53.1 - 25
7:32.5 - 2,000m - 1:53.1 - 25
7:30.9 - 2,000m - 1:52.7 - 25

bob.haffner
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by bob.haffner » August 22nd, 2018, 7:23 pm

RayOfSunshine wrote:
August 22nd, 2018, 12:57 pm
PP 2.1 Pyramid, DF = 110, Target = 1:53.9

14:55.3 - 4,000m - 1:51.9 - 32
0:56.9 - 250m - 1:53.8 - 32
1:53.6 - 500m - 1:53.6 - 31
2:50.3 - 750m - 1:53.5 - 29
3:47.0 - 1,000m - 1:53.5 - 30
2:47.9 - 750m - 1:51.9 - 30
1:50.7 - 500m - 1:50.7 - 32
0:49.1 - 250m - 1:38.2 - 44

RowPro couldn't handle the varying intervals. Other than that, I'm pleased with my 1st pass through.
Nice work, Ray. Very impressive 2nd 750m
Street wrote:
August 22nd, 2018, 5:41 pm
Impressive times on the 500s! Quite an increase over the last time you did it too, good work. :)

I was quite pleased with today's session overall but a bit disappointed I didn't manage to go under 7:30 on the last rep. I just didn't have anything left in me after climbing last night and a weights session this morning. Roll on tomorrow mornings nice slow SS.

PP2.3 4x2km. Target 1:53.5
30:08.9 - 8,000m - 1:53.0 - 25
7:32.9 - 2,000m - 1:53.2 - 25
7:32.6 - 2,000m - 1:53.1 - 25
7:32.5 - 2,000m - 1:53.1 - 25
7:30.9 - 2,000m - 1:52.7 - 25
Thanks, Andy! Nice work yourself. You always kill those endurance intervals!

I got that RowPro recently, but haven't done much with it
I'm a little old, kinda heavy and somewhat tall... 2 outta 3 ain't bad

Been rowing on-and-off for a few years. I have a "sub 6:30 2k by the end of 2018" goal

Training Log

RayOfSunshine
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Joined: December 15th, 2017, 9:45 am

Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by RayOfSunshine » August 22nd, 2018, 8:49 pm

Public Service Announcement

Mike has been temporarily locked out of the forum. His back must be doing well, because he crushed his interval session today!
48M, 175cm/5'9", 74.8kg/165lbs
Neptune Beach, FL/Boone, NC

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Citroen
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by Citroen » August 23rd, 2018, 1:48 am

RayOfSunshine wrote:
August 22nd, 2018, 8:49 pm
Public Service Announcement

Mike has been temporarily locked out of the forum. His back must be doing well, because he crushed his interval session today!
How? Send a PM to PaulH to get that fixed.

RayOfSunshine
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by RayOfSunshine » August 23rd, 2018, 3:38 am

Citroen wrote:
August 23rd, 2018, 1:48 am
RayOfSunshine wrote:
August 22nd, 2018, 8:49 pm
Public Service Announcement

Mike has been temporarily locked out of the forum. His back must be doing well, because he crushed his interval session today!
How? Send a PM to PaulH to get that fixed.
Done.

I'm not exactly sure how it happened, but he mentioned something about the new Gmail format and deleting cookies.
48M, 175cm/5'9", 74.8kg/165lbs
Neptune Beach, FL/Boone, NC

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