Pete Plan Thread

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
mdpfirrman
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by mdpfirrman » July 16th, 2018, 2:13 pm

@ Ray - you'll have those days. You just regroup and move on. I have to remind myself that's why it's training. Training involves setbacks and pushing your boundaries. Certainly seems like you did that and you did it too. Something to be said for that!
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Mike Pfirrman
53 Yrs old, 5' 10" / 185 lbs (177cm/84kg)

bob.haffner
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by bob.haffner » July 16th, 2018, 2:13 pm

@Mike, great job!

@Ray, keep at it. You'll be back on track in no time
I'm a little old, kinda heavy and somewhat tall... 2 outta 3 ain't bad

Been rowing on-and-off for a few years. I have a "sub 6:30 2k by the end of 2018" goal

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RayOfSunshine
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by RayOfSunshine » July 16th, 2018, 2:36 pm

Mike & Bob,

Thanks. I know it'll all work out. The cross training (adding in hiking almost daily) and altitude are crushing me. I was back in Florida for a week and had taken a few days off the erg. I went for a jog on my 2.2 mile course then my 4.3 mile course a couple days later. I took over 30s off my per mile pace on each. So, I know it'll come around when I focus on just rowing again. It's just a mental hurdle that's been tough.
47M, 5'9", 86kg/189lbs
Neptune Beach, FL

Started BPP on 12/16/17 @ 105kg/231lbs
Season goal: sub-40 10k (41:10 on 5/30/18)

rascott
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by rascott » July 17th, 2018, 4:15 am

Glad you're back Robert! Robert, have you thought about doing the 5K PP? Your strength is still very strong (likely much stronger than I am) but your cardio is lacking currently. The full PP is good for cardio but I feel meters or perhaps a plan like the 5K PP would build your cardio back quicker. Just a thought.
Mike - interesting. What is it about the 5K plan that you think would be beneficial? I've had a quick look and at first glance it looks harder than the standard PP. Is that it? More intensity for longer?

thanks
Robert | 48 | 6'1 | 100.7 kg
2K - 7:26; 5K - 20:25; 6k - 24:41; 30mins - 7154m; 10K - 42:30
Started C2 rowing Nov 2017 but rowed OTW in my youth

mdpfirrman
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by mdpfirrman » July 17th, 2018, 8:04 am

rascott wrote:
Glad you're back Robert! Robert, have you thought about doing the 5K PP? Your strength is still very strong (likely much stronger than I am) but your cardio is lacking currently. The full PP is good for cardio but I feel meters or perhaps a plan like the 5K PP would build your cardio back quicker. Just a thought.
Mike - interesting. What is it about the 5K plan that you think would be beneficial? I've had a quick look and at first glance it looks harder than the standard PP. Is that it? More intensity for longer?

thanks
Just the fact that you've done a round or so of the Pete Plan already (and that you're an experienced rower, albeit years ago) to me means that you'd likely be bored by the Beginner PP. I think that would be too basic for you to enjoy. The 5K PP (to me) is just basically like the last few weeks of the BPP with added sessions. It is hard but I think if the intensity/speed of the interval sessions are began at a reasonable level, it would help build cardio quite a bit. Based off some of your times current, I'm guessing your cardio needs built up. You seem to have some power but the full PP mostly enhances where you are right now. If your base fitness is off, that's all it will show. That's essentially what happened to me last round, I saw that my base fitness was off (from where I was when I raced this year). Right now, I think you might benefit from more base building first. It's also a 12 week program and most that I've read on base building recommend at least 12 weeks to accomplish that.

As far as your "intensity" question, it's just a different intensity. It's more AT work/distance tolerance rather than speed work. The full PP is geared more for full power. With the shorter rests on the 5K PP, it will limit your ability to do as fast of work so it's just different intensity, not necessarily that much easier or harder. I know some rowers that do 10Ks all the time I would find incredibly painful (just my preference) that avoid 2K/1K and 500m work. They find that stuff intolerable (those guys would likely benefit from doing the full PP more often!).

The full PP will also accomplish much of the same things assuming you're rowing mininum 8K on all of your SS days. Skipping the SS sessions won't improve your cardio just from the HIIT sessions. In my opinion, the SS sessions are just as important as the intervals (if not more important for recovery and aerobic base building).

If the full PP is done as written, the full PP and the 5K PP are around (roughly) the same meters.


Full PP - 4K (fast intervals plus 1K Warm up = 5K)/8K minimum/7.5K (intermediate intervals)/8K/5K minimum TT/8K = 42K meters (with 8Ks for SS days)

5K PP - 10K/6K (fast intervals)/10K/6K (intermediate intervals)/10K/6K (3 X 2K) = 49K including 1K WU for the fast intervals


So if you row 10K on the full PP on SS days, it's around the same meters through the week. Main difference is that you're working aerobic ability not speed. If you talk to most experienced rowers (more than I), they will tell you there are 3/4 things that matter in rowing. The most important being your base aerobic fitness. Then strength, AT/Lactic Acid Clearance and tolerance and then Speed last. Speed can be built the quickest of all these components.


Sorry for the long answer. Would love to hear from a more experienced person. Henry, Stu, Tom, Rod (or many others)?
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Mike Pfirrman
53 Yrs old, 5' 10" / 185 lbs (177cm/84kg)

Dangerscouse
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by Dangerscouse » July 17th, 2018, 10:17 am

I'm useless to ask. I have never rowed following a plan so I'm really no help.

I do agree with your hierarchy of priorities Mike. Speed is almost a by-product of strength and fitness, albeit vo2 max etc plays a part too, so speed will come when you refine all of the other elements.

I also agree that a more advanced plan would be more applicable if there's some experience of rowing. It won't happen overnight but getting back to the same levels should be easier than if you have never achieved it, albeit it will not feel any easier whatsoever
44 Years Old; 6' 4"; 95kg; Liverpool, England 2k= 6:38; 5k= 17:29; 6k= 21:54; 10k= 36:21 30mins= 8,242m 60mins= 16,317m HM= 1:18:40; FM= 2:49:39; 50k= 3:28:18; 75k=5:29:15; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

Instagram: stuwenman

rascott
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by rascott » July 17th, 2018, 10:47 am

Thanks Mike that’s an interesting post.

I have actually completed the beginners Pete plan and found it to be at about the right level of challenge for me at the time. I have since gone onto the full PP but something about it doesn’t really grab me and I have dropped out a couple of times, so maybe the longer term structure of the 5K plan might suit me better so I may give it a go. I am doing 8K minimum on the SS pieces and had , until a week off recently hillwalking , built up to 11.5K for SS.

I’ll have a think about it and examine the 5k plan a bit more closely.
Robert | 48 | 6'1 | 100.7 kg
2K - 7:26; 5K - 20:25; 6k - 24:41; 30mins - 7154m; 10K - 42:30
Started C2 rowing Nov 2017 but rowed OTW in my youth

m06w41
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by m06w41 » July 17th, 2018, 11:20 am

@Mike - thanks for the feedback.

Rowed 3 times last week rather than 4. Had a 6 mile moderately loaded backpack hike on Sunday and wanted to be rested. It was grueling.

Back on the erg for Week 4, Row 1. Still working on keeping feet flat, reduced stroke length still is odd as I get used to how unlimber my chins and calves are. Spent some time stretching prior and did a 2x500m interval warmup at moderate pace then rowed with a 2'34" target and breathing to keep heart rate below 150bpm if possible. Not great pace but it's better and small gains are nice to see. Certainly a couple times I got a little winded but kept at it.

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Tracy Nolte
Male, 49, 5' 8"
Started The 24 Week Pete Plan 6/25/18 @ 197.6 lb
Current Weight 183.0
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mdpfirrman
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by mdpfirrman » July 17th, 2018, 1:50 pm

@ Tracy - nice work!

@ Robert - It's not like the PP won't help you, it will. Just one note from my own personal experience with the PP. I was doing some really great numbers on the PP in the fall of 2016. Got sick later that year and ended up not doing so well on my race in February (OK but not great). My best times on the PP, consistently, were when I looked over my C2 Logbook and had consistent meters for a 3 or 4 month period prior to doing the full PP. So last year, I did more meters in the months preceding my upcoming race and only did (I think) 2 rotations of the PP -- I dropped my 2K time by 8 full seconds from 7:19 to 7:11. The PP sharpens what you already have underlying.

W2/D2 of 5K PP: Today was another 10K on the 5K Pete plan. 2:11 and I accidentally let the handle slip once from sweat. Felt relatively easy. I'm slowly getting faster on the 10Ks. I'm going to see if I can just keep going on the plan despite a lot of things going on the next two weeks. My progress has been steady and noticeable.
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Mike Pfirrman
53 Yrs old, 5' 10" / 185 lbs (177cm/84kg)

RayOfSunshine
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by RayOfSunshine » July 18th, 2018, 11:52 am

mdpfirrman wrote: W2/D2 of 5K PP: Today was another 10K on the 5K Pete plan. 2:11 and I accidentally let the handle slip once from sweat. Felt relatively easy. I'm slowly getting faster on the 10Ks. I'm going to see if I can just keep going on the plan despite a lot of things going on the next two weeks. My progress has been steady and noticeable.
Nice work.

BPP 22.1 12k today

Goal 1st 2k at 2:12, then dropping 1s each 2k after to end up with an average of 2:09.5 (beating my prior 12k average of 2:10). HD with about 3k to go. I could've grinded it out... or, at a minimum finished at 2:10 average. I didn't want to admit it on here that I HD'd, but oh well.. it happened. It's how I respond that matters.

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47M, 5'9", 86kg/189lbs
Neptune Beach, FL

Started BPP on 12/16/17 @ 105kg/231lbs
Season goal: sub-40 10k (41:10 on 5/30/18)

mdpfirrman
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by mdpfirrman » July 18th, 2018, 1:45 pm

@ Ray - nice negative splits! Good work on that piece that you finished. There are days that you don't have it. Seems like you've been affected a lot by the change in climate! What you did was at least 8K and you might have pushed too hard. The BPP is SO long. Anyone that completes it is pretty impressive in terms of tenacity/consistency.

@ Robert - Reviewing your training/current times, you've done a great job improving fitness and your recent 2K PB was really solid, so your training is your training. Don't let me convince you of anything. I just have seen your recent full PP intervals and thought, 'he's stronger than that a bit...". I haven't added all your times based on Pete's suggested paces, but I guess I thought you might be holding back a bit, perhaps to do a couple of rounds of the full PP. To be honest, what I've learned after doing the full PP now four years off and on is it's best suited to get on it and get off of it! Two rounds for me, as hard as I can manage is my limit. Beyond that, most over 40 are asking for a break down. I've seen it over and over again. I thought you might be (maybe I'm wrong) holding back a bit on your times to do it a few rounds for improvement (and like me you like structure).

I think if you want to do a plan for around 12 weeks, the 5K Pete Plan might be better where you can "ease" into it more and gradually improve, like you did on the BPP. I don't remember is you did the 3X a week on the BPP (I thought you did one or two more days on that). That's all I'll bring it up!

Today was W2/D4 of the 5K Pete Plan (4 X 1650/4'). The plan reads to keep the same pace as last week on the 1500 X 4 but with the longer distances (last week I was 1:58.9 on that workout so this was the target).

1650 / 1:59.3 / 27
1650 / 1:58.4 / 27
1650 / 1:58.7 / 27
1650 / 1:59.3 / 27

6600 / 1:58.9 / 27

Felt pretty good just about doing it today. Worked 3 hours last night getting the house ready for four rooms of carpet. Feel like a moving man this week. We have a quad level so I was up and down stairs for 3 hours last night. Another day or two of that until it's back to normal. Hopefully be able to get my 10K SS in tomorrow with them here most of the day laying carpet.

Part of the reason (the main reason actually) that I'm doing the 5K PP is that I like this forum because it keeps me accountable to a plan. When I do it on my own, I might have done two 1500m intervals and called it a day. Knowing this was the plan today, I finished it. Certainly didn't feel like it today but if I'm going to take more time off my 2K, more AT work is in order this year.
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Mike Pfirrman
53 Yrs old, 5' 10" / 185 lbs (177cm/84kg)

Street
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by Street » July 18th, 2018, 4:11 pm

RayOfSunshine wrote: Goal 1st 2k at 2:12, then dropping 1s each 2k after to end up with an average of 2:09.5 (beating my prior 12k average of 2:10). HD with about 3k to go. I could've grinded it out... or, at a minimum finished at 2:10 average. I didn't want to admit it on here that I HD'd, but oh well.. it happened. It's how I respond that matters.
You still did nearly 9km at a decent pace though with good splits! You're nearly done with the BPP so that's impressive enough alone. The last few weeks of it were a real grind. We're in the same HD club today too.. :D
mdpfirrman wrote:Today was W2/D4 of the 5K Pete Plan (4 X 1650/4'). The plan reads to keep the same pace as last week on the 1500 X 4 but with the longer distances (last week I was 1:58.9 on that workout so this was the target).

1650 / 1:59.3 / 27
1650 / 1:58.4 / 27
1650 / 1:58.7 / 27
1650 / 1:59.3 / 27

6600 / 1:58.9 / 27

Felt pretty good just about doing it today. Worked 3 hours last night getting the house ready for four rooms of carpet. Feel like a moving man this week. We have a quad level so I was up and down stairs for 3 hours last night. Another day or two of that until it's back to normal. Hopefully be able to get my 10K SS in tomorrow with them here most of the day laying carpet.
That looks like a tough session with 4min rest, a combination of the two worst sessions but with less rest! I feel your pain with the house, we've just had new doors fitted so everything was up in the air for that. Luckily it was the last major thing that needed doing for a while.

I gave a 2km test a go tonight and I'm annoyed with myself. I got to 1800m but could feel my pace starting to slip so bailed instead of carrying on. If I'd have hung on it would have been a new PB, probably not sub 7, but pretty close. I might give it another go on Friday but give it a bit more willpower this time.. I should have just stuck it for another 40 seconds!

6:21.7 - 1,806m - 1:45.6 - 28
1:24.4 - 400m - 1:45.5 - 28
1:23.7 - 400m - 1:44.6 - 27
1:23.5 - 400m - 1:44.3 - 29
1:23.5 - 400m - 1:44.3 - 30
0:45.3 - 206m - 1:49.9 - 26

mdpfirrman
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by mdpfirrman » July 18th, 2018, 5:02 pm

@ Andy - that's a tough one!! Just a bit too aggressive I suppose. Not much to say to that. I think that's why I do better at live races than doing TT at home. Those are incredibly tough. Adrenaline pulls me through in races. I forget, have you ever raced? I don't think you have. I think you'd crack a 7 for sure under race conditions with a nice taper or at least get pretty darn close.

My best time at home is a 7:18 which I did last year just to take the pressure off my race day.
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Mike Pfirrman
53 Yrs old, 5' 10" / 185 lbs (177cm/84kg)

RayOfSunshine
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by RayOfSunshine » July 18th, 2018, 5:13 pm

Street wrote:The last few weeks of it were a real grind. We're in the same HD club today too.. :D


Thanks for sharing Andy... I no longer feel alone on HD Island. This rowing is WAY more mental than I would've ever imagined.
47M, 5'9", 86kg/189lbs
Neptune Beach, FL

Started BPP on 12/16/17 @ 105kg/231lbs
Season goal: sub-40 10k (41:10 on 5/30/18)

Street
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by Street » July 18th, 2018, 5:54 pm

I've never done a race, I didn't think I'd be quick enough to be competitive so it's not something I've really looked into. It probably didn't help that I've not done a test in a couple years so wasn't really sure on pacing etc to go for. I really should do them more often to get an idea of what to aim for.
RayOfSunshine wrote:This rowing is WAY more mental than I would've ever imagined.
Definitely!

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