Pete Plan Thread

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
buzbee
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by buzbee » May 6th, 2019, 6:09 pm

PP w2-1, my first speed pyramid (250,500,750,1000,750,500,250). Intended to use my 2K pace (1:49.4) as suggested in the Pete Plan paper, but ended up averaging a bit faster (1:47.1):

14:17.1 4,000m 1:47.1 285 1279 30 167

0:54.1 250m 1:48.2 276 1250 30 142
1:48.5 500m 1:48.5 274 1243 29 163
2:41.4 750m 1:47.6 281 1266 29 172
3:36.1 1,000m 1:48.0 277 1254 29 179
2:41.5 750m 1:47.6 280 1265 30 178
1:44.8 500m 1:44.8 304 1346 33 175
0:50.7 250m 1:41.4 336 1455 36 166

Which brings me to my question - how do you handle rolling vs. dead starts on short interval sessions? Part of the reason these ended up faster, I assume, is that except for the first and last two intervals I got the wheel spinning before the interval began to avoid having to strain at the start to get up to speed. I'm keen to avoid injury, and it seems like quickly going from dead start to target pace is when I'm most likely to break something.

Do most folks use rolling starts for short interval sessions or always go from a dead start? If rolling, do you adjust your target pace to compensate and if so, by how much?

Thanks,
...Bill
M60, 180cm/95kg (5'11"/210lb); 500m = 1:35.9; 2k = 7:17.8; 5k = 19:27.3; 10k = 40:45.8; HM = 1:29:33.1

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jackarabit
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by jackarabit » May 6th, 2019, 11:29 pm

Rolling is easier on the back than is the inertia-defeating 1/2,3/4, full stroke start from dead wheel. If skewing the average pace and thereby producing an over ambitious future target is a consideration, take an arms only inertia breaker pull @ 2 or 3” out from clock start and don’t choke the length of the first strokes of the active period. I always use rolling starts after the first. The timing of first active stroke of a rolling start is an interesting diversion but has no place in competition so no useful application.
There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

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lindsayh
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by lindsayh » May 7th, 2019, 12:02 am

buzbee wrote:
May 6th, 2019, 6:09 pm
Which brings me to my question - how do you handle rolling vs. dead starts on short interval sessions? Part of the reason these ended up faster, I assume, is that except for the first and last two intervals I got the wheel spinning before the interval began to avoid having to strain at the start to get up to speed. I'm keen to avoid injury, and it seems like quickly going from dead start to target pace is when I'm most likely to break something.
Do most folks use rolling starts for short interval sessions or always go from a dead start? If rolling, do you adjust your target pace to compensate and if so, by how much? Thanks, Bill
I paddle through the rests often and hit the start on full roll - as Jack says an interesting diversion in trying to get the timing right. For most short intervals the fan is still turning anyway so they are all rolling really. Injury prevention is a good reason IMO. The only exception I guess is when you are practicing starts or the rest is say 3'+ and you want to do a full start. You will be faster than waiting for the interval to start but that is not a problem as long as you compare like with like - it is not a race with others.
Lindsay
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PBs (65y+) 1 min 349m, 500m 1:29.8, 1k 3:11.7 2k 6:47.4, 5km 18:07.9, 30' 7928m, 10k 37:57.2, 60' 15368m

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Ombrax
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by Ombrax » May 7th, 2019, 12:39 am

I too do rolling starts, for the same reasons mentioned above - it's much easier on your body.

As long as you're just competing against yourself the fact that it's a bit faster than a standing start really doesn't hurt anything.

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hjs
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by hjs » May 7th, 2019, 3:11 am

Ombrax wrote:
May 7th, 2019, 12:39 am
I too do rolling starts, for the same reasons mentioned above - it's much easier on your body.

As long as you're just competing against yourself the fact that it's a bit faster than a standing start really doesn't hurt anything.
It only matters for races, there the start really is slow, a computer starts the ergs here.

I don,t like rolling starts, but absolutely can see others use them, if that feels better, do so.
For my training see twitter @Hjsrowing

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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by Andrew Shuck » May 8th, 2019, 1:21 pm

Hi to everyone, all last season i never allowed the fan to completely stop during recovery/rest periods. I'd not considered this until reading the above posts.
Today i did 4 x 2k 5' Ave 1:47.0 28spm DF 131
On the 3rd rest i allowed the fan to stop, 1st stroke was 1:46 something 2nd was 1:36 then settled down.
I'm not being religious about following the plan. Just doing the sessions as and when.
Also got my C'Breeze fitted now.

The Pete plan is a fantastic program to follow i did 22 weeks odd last season and got 6:20.2 for the 2k. Knocking 40 odd seconds off.
Just for bragging rights the Plan helped me achieve 5th in the 2019 world rankings.
Had a crack at the longer distances 5k-10k-HM-M they all worked out well.
In my opinion the pp will help achieve considerably more than could ever imagine.
Regards.
Male 52 yrs. 6'1"All time P.b's achieved in 2019....500m 1:24.7 1k 3:02.6 2k 6:20.2 5k 16:51.4 10k 35:48.6 1/2 M 1:17:37.3 full M 2:45:52.7 2018 100k 7:37.27.1
2020 10k P.B. 35:25.9

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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by buzbee » May 13th, 2019, 5:52 pm

Just starting week 3 of the Pete Plan, and it's going well. Today was 4x1K r5:00, and it was the third one of those I've ever done. Happily, it worked as planned this time. The other two times I tried a 4x1Kr5 I went out too fast on the first segments and just limped through the last two. Today my plan was to not get too aggressive on the first interval (1:50), and do slight negative splits throughout. Ended up:

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
14:28.8 4,000m 1:48.6 273 1240 31 170
3:39.3 1,000m 1:49.6 265 1213 31 162
3:37.8 1,000m 1:48.9 271 1232 30 170
3:36.3 1,000m 1:48.1 277 1252 31 174
3:35.5 1,000m 1:47.7 280 1262 32 175

I got myself in a little trouble by going too fast for the 3rd interval and was worried I wouldn't be able to beat that on the final one. It was quite painful, but I managed to silence the voice that was telling me to give up with about 600 meters to go and was able to (just barely) hang on.

Right now I'm looking forward to tomorrow's UT2 recovery row.
M60, 180cm/95kg (5'11"/210lb); 500m = 1:35.9; 2k = 7:17.8; 5k = 19:27.3; 10k = 40:45.8; HM = 1:29:33.1

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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by Andrew Shuck » May 15th, 2019, 12:50 pm

@ Bill, nice work..you didn't quit that's mentally important, well done.

For me 3k,2.5,2k
3k 1:46.5
2.5k 1:46.4
2k 1:44.2
Ave/ 1:45.9
spm 29 ave. Drag 134
Also had a big fat fly for company, buzzing about. Dead now.
I don't have a current 5k time at mo, to plan my splits for the one.
Male 52 yrs. 6'1"All time P.b's achieved in 2019....500m 1:24.7 1k 3:02.6 2k 6:20.2 5k 16:51.4 10k 35:48.6 1/2 M 1:17:37.3 full M 2:45:52.7 2018 100k 7:37.27.1
2020 10k P.B. 35:25.9

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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by buzbee » May 15th, 2019, 4:57 pm

@ Andrew - wow! those are some impressive times. I also did the 3k, 2.5k, 2k today. First time for me, and it went OK:

3k 1:56.4
2.5k 1:55.6
2k 1:54.7
Ave/ 1:55.7
spm 25, drag 125

It's also a good example of one of the things I'm having difficulty with - staying on my target pace. I established a 5K PR about 5 weeks ago - 19:27.3 for a split of 1:56.7. So, for this workout my target was that plus 1, or 1:57.7. I figured I'd just try to keep the pace between 1:57 and 1:58. I think what happens, though, is that when I see a pace slower than my target I immediately try to go harder, but when I'm going faster than my target I adjust more slowly. The net effect is that I consistently overshoot my target pace.

After my the first interval today, I reset my target pace to what I did in the 3k - 1:56.4. And, of course, then overshot that with a 1:55.6.
I guess this is just something I'll get better at with practice.
M60, 180cm/95kg (5'11"/210lb); 500m = 1:35.9; 2k = 7:17.8; 5k = 19:27.3; 10k = 40:45.8; HM = 1:29:33.1

Dangerscouse
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by Dangerscouse » May 16th, 2019, 2:51 am

buzbee wrote:
May 13th, 2019, 5:52 pm
Just starting week 3 of the Pete Plan, and it's going well. Today was 4x1K r5:00, and it was the third one of those I've ever done. Happily, it worked as planned this time. The other two times I tried a 4x1Kr5 I went out too fast on the first segments and just limped through the last two. Today my plan was to not get too aggressive on the first interval (1:50), and do slight negative splits throughout. Ended up:

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
14:28.8 4,000m 1:48.6 273 1240 31 170
3:39.3 1,000m 1:49.6 265 1213 31 162
3:37.8 1,000m 1:48.9 271 1232 30 170
3:36.3 1,000m 1:48.1 277 1252 31 174
3:35.5 1,000m 1:47.7 280 1262 32 175

I got myself in a little trouble by going too fast for the 3rd interval and was worried I wouldn't be able to beat that on the final one. It was quite painful, but I managed to silence the voice that was telling me to give up with about 600 meters to go and was able to (just barely) hang on.

Right now I'm looking forward to tomorrow's UT2 recovery row.
That's really good pacing. You should be feeling a bit worried on the penultimate rep as you are then really pushing the boundaries of your comfort zone, and you don't make progress without doing it.
45 HWT; 6' 4"; Liverpool 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:27; 6k= 21:23; 10k= 36:21 30mins= 8,356m 60mins= 16,317m HM= 1:18:40; FM= 2:49:39; 50k= 3:28:18; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you Row"

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Dangerscouse
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by Dangerscouse » May 16th, 2019, 2:57 am

buzbee wrote:
May 15th, 2019, 4:57 pm

It's also a good example of one of the things I'm having difficulty with - staying on my target pace. I established a 5K PR about 5 weeks ago - 19:27.3 for a split of 1:56.7. So, for this workout my target was that plus 1, or 1:57.7. I figured I'd just try to keep the pace between 1:57 and 1:58. I think what happens, though, is that when I see a pace slower than my target I immediately try to go harder, but when I'm going faster than my target I adjust more slowly. The net effect is that I consistently overshoot my target pace.

After my the first interval today, I reset my target pace to what I did in the 3k - 1:56.4. And, of course, then overshot that with a 1:55.6.
I guess this is just something I'll get better at with practice.
Hahaha, that's a very enviable problem to have!! Over achieving in intervals is always good as this proves you're faster than you think you are. A 5k is a tough one to judge so I think you can probably set another PR soon, especially when you get more confidence to keep going through the inevitable tough moments.
45 HWT; 6' 4"; Liverpool 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:27; 6k= 21:23; 10k= 36:21 30mins= 8,356m 60mins= 16,317m HM= 1:18:40; FM= 2:49:39; 50k= 3:28:18; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you Row"

Instagram: stuwenman

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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by Siolag » May 19th, 2019, 3:56 am

Did the 8 x 500m yesterday, first time I have done intervals anywhere near that length. I averaged 2:12 for the 500m. Was fairly pleased but feel I could have gone harder, however I wanted to complete the session so didn't go all out. It's also my longest ever actual row, at just over 8km. Today will be steady rowing, minimum 45 mins but might push on for an hour.
New aspiring rower, former runner. Looking to get fitter on the erg and improve strength. Current 2K is 8:53.

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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by buzbee » May 20th, 2019, 3:44 pm

Just began my second round of the 3-week Pete Plan cycle and will now get to compare times from the first round.

This morning was the 8x500r3:30. In the 1st round, I averaged 1:47.0, which was supposed to be my target pace this time around. But, after overshooting on the first couple of intervals, decided to just go with it. Ended up cutting 1.5 seconds off my average time:

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
14:04.6 4,000m 1:45.5 297 1323 31 165
1:45.9 500m 1:45.9 295 1314 31 156
1:45.4 500m 1:45.4 299 1328 31 161
1:46.1 500m 1:46.1 293 1308 30 165
1:45.8 500m 1:45.8 296 1317 31 166
1:45.9 500m 1:45.9 295 1314 31 168
1:45.6 500m 1:45.6 297 1322 31 169
1:45.6 500m 1:45.6 297 1322 32 169
1:44.3 500m 1:44.3 308 1361 34 171

Beginner gains are fun - but I sort of dread having to start at 1:45.5 when I start my next round in three weeks.
M60, 180cm/95kg (5'11"/210lb); 500m = 1:35.9; 2k = 7:17.8; 5k = 19:27.3; 10k = 40:45.8; HM = 1:29:33.1

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jackarabit
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by jackarabit » May 20th, 2019, 4:45 pm

Beginner gains are fun - but I sort of dread having to start at 1:45.5 when I start my next round in three weeks.
All reps at target pace except “Last fastest” was or is Marston’s mantra. The forum Pete Planners of summer 2015 were encouraged by Greg Smith to negative split (pace increase every rep). Either execution will eventually lead to plateauing or decreasing pace (the dreaded HD otherwise annotated as DNF) after several cycles but all reps except last at target tends to extend the period of improvement.

Conversely, the fall ‘16 Planners included a guy who exploited all reps @ target except final rep to retard pace improvement to a few tenths of a second per cycle—a negligible rate of improvement for a rower working in the range of sub-200 watt power altho a significant rate of pace improvement for a rower working in excess of 300 watts.
There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

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mitchel674
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by mitchel674 » May 20th, 2019, 5:04 pm

Siolag wrote:
May 19th, 2019, 3:56 am
Did the 8 x 500m yesterday, first time I have done intervals anywhere near that length. I averaged 2:12 for the 500m. Was fairly pleased but feel I could have gone harder, however I wanted to complete the session so didn't go all out. It's also my longest ever actual row, at just over 8km. Today will be steady rowing, minimum 45 mins but might push on for an hour.
Good job getting through the 8 x 500mm. By my calculation, it's only 4km, but I could be wrong.

The challenge will come when you re-row this piece and use your 2:12 pace as you starting point. That's what makes the Pete Plan so tough.
54yo male, 6ft, 162lbs

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