Pete Plan Thread

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
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hjs
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by hjs » July 21st, 2020, 2:28 am

jenn wrote:
July 20th, 2020, 11:37 pm
You guys - I have no idea HOW you do 21 spm - just pushing off with my legs and not pulling too hard, I am at 24-28 spm -- I have to really pause as I push / lean back / pull and reverse - is that normal?

I did 5000 m tonight -- 2:52 pace (vs 2:15 to 2:30 of my previous sessions) and managed to keep my HR avg at 124 ... but at this level, I feel like I should be doing 2-3 30 minute sessions per day (bicycling to the office 24-27 minutes w an average HR of 155 there and 169 back is what I'm used to).

The Peter Plan Beginner doesn't specify HR or SPM -- and I have no idea what to target.
Maybe you first ignore Strokerate. In itself that is never a goal but a tool. Pete plan never uses hr, it only goes by pace. If your hf is 124, you clearly do not have a good feel for the movement. In rowing, there is not a 1 on 1 movement, like in cycling or running. The stroke should be firm and the recovery calm. To slow down the spm, you should not change the pull part, but only the recovery. If you slow down this much, you simply don’t put much effort in the stroke.
Its the rower that needs to put energy in the fan, the machine itself does nothing. To do this, the stroke time should take less time.

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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by Citroen » July 21st, 2020, 4:29 am

jenn wrote:
July 20th, 2020, 11:37 pm
You guys - I have no idea HOW you do 21 spm - just pushing off with my legs and not pulling too hard, I am at 24-28 spm -- I have to really pause as I push / lean back / pull and reverse - is that normal?
Don't worry about SPM.
DO NOT pause anywhere in your stroke. It's one fluid and continuous motion from the first stroke until the PM5 reaches zero.

If you want to reduce stroke rates row strapless, don't tie your feet down.

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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by Dangerscouse » July 21st, 2020, 5:12 am

jenn wrote:
July 20th, 2020, 11:37 pm
You guys - I have no idea HOW you do 21 spm - just pushing off with my legs and not pulling too hard, I am at 24-28 spm -- I have to really pause as I push / lean back / pull and reverse - is that normal?
It does take a bit of getting used to if you naturally row at higher rates. The drive should always be fast and powerful, with a conscious effort to plant your feet into the foot plates rather than allowing your momentum to flow backwards too much. A strong core is required as this acts as the fulcrum between your upper and lower body.

When you have finished the drive, all you need to do is slow down the recovery phase, so there is no need to pause. Don't rush back down the slide. Also it helps to increase your lean back on lower rates as this naturally slows you down, as there's no opportunity to clip the stroke shorter.

If you use Ergdata, you can see stroke length and for r18-20 it will be up to 1:54 but for a r28-30 it's usually 1:39. Obviously, this is higher as I'm quite tall but it shows the range that comes from different stroke rates.
46 HWT; 6' 4"; 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:24; 6k= 21:09; 10k= 35:46 30mins= 8,428m 60mins= 16,331m HM= 1:18:25; FM= 2:45:49; 50k= 3:21:14; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you row"

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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by jenn » July 22nd, 2020, 12:55 am

Dangerscouse wrote:
July 21st, 2020, 5:12 am
jenn wrote:
July 20th, 2020, 11:37 pm
You guys - I have no idea HOW you do 21 spm - just pushing off with my legs and not pulling too hard, I am at 24-28 spm -- I have to really pause as I push / lean back / pull and reverse - is that normal?
It does take a bit of getting used to if you naturally row at higher rates. The drive should always be fast and powerful, with a conscious effort to plant your feet into the foot plates rather than allowing your momentum to flow backwards too much. A strong core is required as this acts as the fulcrum between your upper and lower body.
I think I'e got that
Dangerscouse wrote:
July 21st, 2020, 5:12 am
When you have finished the drive, all you need to do is slow down the recovery phase, so there is no need to pause. Don't rush back down the slide. Also it helps to increase your lean back on lower rates as this naturally slows you down, as there's no opportunity to clip the stroke shorter.
Ok - slow on the recovery got it.
Dangerscouse wrote:
July 21st, 2020, 5:12 am

If you use Ergdata, you can see stroke length and for r18-20 it will be up to 1:54 but for a r28-30 it's usually 1:39. Obviously, this is higher as I'm quite tall but it shows the range that comes from different stroke rates.
I am using Ergdata but not seeing stroke length -- is it called something else?

Distance: 5,744m
Time: 30:00.0
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by mict450 » July 22nd, 2020, 1:34 am

Jenn: --- Henry, Dougie & Stu have given you good advice on decreasing your rating. To summarize - keep the drive powerful, fast, lots of oomph & schmaltz. Sneak up lazily on recovery, sort of like creeping up real slow on a squirrel that you want to bark.

Won't happen overnight. Try decreasing your spm by mebbe 2 every week, & before you know it, you'll be rowing & not flailing away needlessly going up and down the slide.

Everyone here has had the same problem. I'm not aware of anyone who was/is a "natural" rower, who had flawless form their first time on the water or on the erg. We are all still working on something we can improve upon in our technique. All the best to you.
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by hjs » July 22nd, 2020, 3:32 am

Re ergdata, sweep your app screen, there are three pages, one with strokelenght.

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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by Citroen » July 22nd, 2020, 5:43 am

hjs wrote:
July 22nd, 2020, 3:32 am
Re ergdata, sweep your app screen, there are three pages, one with strokelenght.
If you tap on either of the boxes on the right of the home screen you can choose which metric is displayed.

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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by Polop » July 22nd, 2020, 2:03 pm

jenn wrote:
July 20th, 2020, 11:37 pm
You guys - I have no idea HOW you do 21 spm - just pushing off with my legs and not pulling too hard, I am at 24-28 spm -- I have to really pause as I push / lean back / pull and reverse - is that normal?
When you push with your legs, is the handle bar moving at the same speed your seat is? Maybe try to post a form check on the forum if you don't mind constructive criticism. Or try to row without strapping your feet : I do it for my low effort sessions and it sure makes you perform with more care.

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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by Pdscout » July 22nd, 2020, 2:44 pm

Week12
10k 2:08.1 @spm23(2:09)
4x1500m rest 3 min AVG 2:01.7 (2:02.5)
2:02.5
2:02.4
2:02.4
1:59.4
34y Male 185cm 88kg
Image

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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by jenn » July 22nd, 2020, 11:13 pm

mict450 wrote:
July 22nd, 2020, 1:34 am
Jenn: --- Henry, Dougie & Stu have given you good advice on decreasing your rating. To summarize - keep the drive powerful, fast, lots of oomph & schmaltz. Sneak up lazily on recovery, sort of like creeping up real slow on a squirrel that you want to bark.

Won't happen overnight. Try decreasing your spm by mebbe 2 every week, & before you know it, you'll be rowing & not flailing away needlessly going up and down the slide.

Everyone here has had the same problem. I'm not aware of anyone who was/is a "natural" rower, who had flawless form their first time on the water or on the erg. We are all still working on something we can improve upon in our technique. All the best to you.
Before SIP - I was a regular bike commuter and have always been a bicyclist & runner so I'm really good at the pushing off part. It's the landing that usually results in stitches!

I don't think I'm "flailing" -- not sure what that would look like.

Citroen wrote:
July 22nd, 2020, 5:43 am
hjs wrote:
July 22nd, 2020, 3:32 am
Re ergdata, sweep your app screen, there are three pages, one with strokelenght.
If you tap on either of the boxes on the right of the home screen you can choose which metric is displayed.
But what about in the uploaded data? I don't see it.
Polop wrote:
July 22nd, 2020, 2:03 pm
jenn wrote:
July 20th, 2020, 11:37 pm
You guys - I have no idea HOW you do 21 spm - just pushing off with my legs and not pulling too hard, I am at 24-28 spm -- I have to really pause as I push / lean back / pull and reverse - is that normal?
When you push with your legs, is the handle bar moving at the same speed your seat is? Maybe try to post a form check on the forum if you don't mind constructive criticism. Or try to row without strapping your feet : I do it for my low effort sessions and it sure makes you perform with more care.
Tried rowing barefoot and without straps - back of my heel got a bit chafed. :)

I'm not sure what you mean about the handle bar moving at the same speed as my seat -- it's the last thing to move after I push off -- I'm doing big push with legs, leaning back and not pulling hard/with effort until my legs are straight on the handlebar (it just follows til I open my hips after pushing back)

Not sure my iPhone 6 would do a good video but if someone wants to get on WebEx with me - send me a PM!

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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by jenn » July 23rd, 2020, 12:19 am

Update - did 1 x 500 and then 5 x 500 (day 2 of the pete plan) - and focused on the stroke length -- 1.17 to 1.28, my spm is 19-20 and my pace dropped to 2:38 (damper is set at 5).

And - I think I know what "the catch" is now.

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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by Polop » July 23rd, 2020, 2:58 am

jenn wrote:
July 22nd, 2020, 11:13 pm
Tried rowing barefoot and without straps - back of my heel got a bit chafed. :)
Yeah, I keep the shoes on when without straps.
jenn wrote:
July 22nd, 2020, 11:13 pm
I'm not sure what you mean about the handle bar moving at the same speed as my seat -- it's the last thing to move after I push off -- I'm doing big push with legs, leaning back and not pulling hard/with effort until my legs are straight on the handlebar (it just follows til I open my hips after pushing back)
I mean: you push with your legs, your seat moves but if all the rest of your body is fixed the handlebars should go as fast as the seat. So all the effort you make with the legs go into pulling.

Here is a concept2 video: https://youtu.be/oP6OR-G7AxM?t=342

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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by ampire » July 23rd, 2020, 1:17 pm

jenn wrote:
July 20th, 2020, 11:37 pm
You guys - I have no idea HOW you do 21 spm - just pushing off with my legs and not pulling too hard, I am at 24-28 spm -- I have to really pause as I push / lean back / pull and reverse - is that normal?
Try running a lower drag factor, I use 95. This facilitates a powerful snappy drive with a relaxed recovery. The flywheel doesn't decelerate as much so you can take your time returning to the catch position. The movement should not be 1:1 between drive and recovery, rather the drive should be much faster (and more forceful) than the recovery. Fast recovery is just wasting energy.
M34|5'8"/173CM|150lb/68KG|LWT|MHR~192BPM|2020: 5K 18:52.9 (@1:53.2/500)|C2-D+Slides+EndureRow Seat

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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by jenn » July 23rd, 2020, 2:21 pm

Polop wrote:
July 23rd, 2020, 2:58 am
jenn wrote:
July 22nd, 2020, 11:13 pm
Tried rowing barefoot and without straps - back of my heel got a bit chafed. :)
Yeah, I keep the shoes on when without straps.
jenn wrote:
July 22nd, 2020, 11:13 pm
I'm not sure what you mean about the handle bar moving at the same speed as my seat -- it's the last thing to move after I push off -- I'm doing big push with legs, leaning back and not pulling hard/with effort until my legs are straight on the handlebar (it just follows til I open my hips after pushing back)
I mean: you push with your legs, your seat moves but if all the rest of your body is fixed the handlebars should go as fast as the seat. So all the effort you make with the legs go into pulling.

Here is a concept2 video: https://youtu.be/oP6OR-G7AxM?t=342
Great video, thanks! Wow - "shooting the slide" - that looks awkward. I'm pretty sure I'm pulling along evenly so I can use my legs and then drawing back with my arms once my legs are extended and hips start to open. I watched the entire video -that was very helpful, thanks for sharing.
ampire wrote:
July 23rd, 2020, 1:17 pm

Try running a lower drag factor, I use 95. This facilitates a powerful snappy drive with a relaxed recovery. The flywheel doesn't decelerate as much so you can take your time returning to the catch position. The movement should not be 1:1 between drive and recovery, rather the drive should be much faster (and more forceful) than the recovery. Fast recovery is just wasting energy.
I think my drag factor is close to that - it looks like it was around 110-115 - do I move the damper to a lower or higher number to reduce drag?

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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by ampire » July 23rd, 2020, 7:32 pm

Lower number, my machine is fairly new and clean so for me the lever is middle of #3, machines that have more dust will have a lower drag factor at a given number because the dust reduces the airflow to the fan. It is easy to check: go into your PM5, select More Options, and then select Display Drag Factor.
M34|5'8"/173CM|150lb/68KG|LWT|MHR~192BPM|2020: 5K 18:52.9 (@1:53.2/500)|C2-D+Slides+EndureRow Seat

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