Pete Plan Thread

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
JerekKruger
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by JerekKruger » May 17th, 2018, 11:23 am

mdpfirrman wrote:My first race over 3 years ago, I did a 7:19 @ 27. Then I worked all year on strong, slower SPM rates and did the same race the next year and tied the 7:19 @ 24!! When I posted that on here, guys were like "what are you doing??", LOL. I realized that I had gotten so used to doing low rate work (19/20) that I had almost forgotten what it felt like to rate up.
Yep. My firs sub-7 2k was a 6:53 at rate 31. My current PB was at rate 27.7 and it followed a long period of doing a lot of longer, low rate power work.

That said I think, typically, the best results are gotten at higher rates. My current 5k PB was done at rate 27.3 (fast for me) and there's no way I could have maintained a similar split at a lower rate.
Tom | 33 | 6'6" | 93kg

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G-dub
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by G-dub » May 17th, 2018, 11:25 am

I love these discussions about rate - especially with Mike:

On the erg, like in OTW rowing, productive length is an asset. But being long by overreaching beyond what would make for an efficient application of power for your body type isn't, I don't think. On the erg the only real requirement is to generate as many watts as possible and to hold that for the duration of the TT. "Full strokes" (which I take Mike to mean long pretty strokes like real rowers make) aren't a requirement at all as long as you are achieving the highest watts and sustaining those.
Glenn Walters: 5'-8" X 192 lbs. Bday 01/09/1962
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RayOfSunshine
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by RayOfSunshine » May 17th, 2018, 11:27 am

mdpfirrman wrote:I honestly think Stroke rate is going to vary widely based on height and strength.
Shorter people (like us) need to put in more strokes, right? Have you attempted to do a 2k @ SPM >30?

I just looked at my 1k from last year's virtual challenge. It was a F&D where I started at 32 then drifted down to 29. For the last 200m, I pulled it up to 30.
47M, 5'9", 86kg/189lbs
Neptune Beach, FL

Started rowing December 2017
Season goal: sub-40 10k (40:42 on 9/29/18)

Street
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by Street » May 17th, 2018, 11:52 am

RayOfSunshine wrote:
mdpfirrman wrote:I honestly think Stroke rate is going to vary widely based on height and strength.
Shorter people (like us) need to put in more strokes, right? Have you attempted to do a 2k @ SPM >30?

I just looked at my 1k from last year's virtual challenge. It was a F&D where I started at 32 then drifted down to 29. For the last 200m, I pulled it up to 30.
I think I'd die going above 30! Even my speed intervals seem to settle around 28, 29 at a push.

thejosephwilbur
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by thejosephwilbur » May 17th, 2018, 12:29 pm

RayOfSunshine wrote:
thejosephwilbur wrote: The best 6ks are done at 30+ too. I personally row my 2ks at around a 29, but the bare minimum typically is 32. I'm working on getting that spm up to bring those splits down.
What are you doing to bring the SPM up? Intervals? I need to focus at least one session a week on higher SPM. It's just not comfortable. I get winded then light headed.
Mainly interval work, whenever my team's workouts are open, I'll be pushing as high as I can instead of settling to hopefully get my body used to that.

warnie
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by warnie » May 17th, 2018, 2:42 pm

@David - thanks. Definitely starting to pay off. Following it to the letter and not trying to make big imrpovements and increasing SPM etc Think that's the best way to do it - patience!

@Ray - cheers :D

Tonight I did BPP 3.3 6000M at a Season best time (by 1.9 secs) of 27:15. I've been so proud of myself for training this week with a sore throat, the lungs were burning at the end of each workout but feel so much better after making the effort.

warnie
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by warnie » May 17th, 2018, 2:48 pm

RayOfSunshine wrote:
mdpfirrman wrote:I honestly think Stroke rate is going to vary widely based on height and strength.
Shorter people (like us) need to put in more strokes, right? Have you attempted to do a 2k @ SPM >30?

I just looked at my 1k from last year's virtual challenge. It was a F&D where I started at 32 then drifted down to 29. For the last 200m, I pulled it up to 30.
@Ray - if you're short I am positively vertically challenged at 5'6"!! When i rowed many years ago I never read or studied anything and jsut assumed that more SPM was better. Since coming back after years away three weeks ago, reading the forum and doing the BPP I have totally lowered my SPM to 21-23 (so far!!). During the row tonight I did increase the rate to 28 just to get a feel for technique and smoothness at a higher rate, it felt good but I'll never compete with you tall guys!!

mdpfirrman
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by mdpfirrman » May 18th, 2018, 1:53 pm

G-dub wrote:I love these discussions about rate - especially with Mike:

On the erg, like in OTW rowing, productive length is an asset. But being long by overreaching beyond what would make for an efficient application of power for your body type isn't, I don't think. On the erg the only real requirement is to generate as many watts as possible and to hold that for the duration of the TT. "Full strokes" (which I take Mike to mean long pretty strokes like real rowers make) aren't a requirement at all as long as you are achieving the highest watts and sustaining those.
So I'm like a human Guinea pig then? :lol: I think I've made every mistake you can make rowing yet, somehow, I still love it!

James said something once that hit home with me. He's a very succinct wise rower on here. He said something to the extent of "work a lot on your stroke, use that stroke when you do slow rate work and also use that stroke when you do high rate work...". I think in my last race, I honestly used a pretty consistent stroke throughout with the exception of maybe the last 10 pulls when I shortened it up just to put in a final sprint.


Free rate work, even if it's lighter and faster can help you improve/speed up stroke rate. After that one race (where I averaged 24), I didn't do a SS where I let myself go below 22. Also, I'd play around on longer rows, practicing (like on a L4 Wolverine workout) varying stroke rates for given times -- 30 seconds or 1 minute or three minutes holding a certain stroke rate. Also, at the end of longer rows, I'd see if I could hold a certain stroke rate (like 30) when tired, for like a minute. I honestly think the worst thing someone can do is drastically go to bad form when upping SR. Not worth it to me. Like Glenn mentioned, though, you also don't want to artificially slow or delay a stroke too long at the catch or at the finish. For me, I've noticed that as soon as my feet aren't flat on the return (just when I start to get up on the balls of my feet), I'm in danger of hanging around too long at the catch and I need to engage my legs and drive through to the bottom of my feet. I know I've been doing this, too, when my knees hurt or my calves are overly sore. When I consciously think about this, I feel I'm not wasting efforts at the catch. Similarly, I think I have slow hands. Many on here mentioned to me to work on making my hands more "light" or feathering the end of the drive with the hands into the chest. I had a really bad habit for my first couple of years of rowing thumping my chest with the handle, like that made me faster. Just the opposite actually. I find I'm most efficient with good form when I'm able to drive through the legs first, sitting up, still leaning slightly forward when I start to engage the torso and then upper body. Should be fluid. Took me way too long to understand that power (for me) was through drive speed, fluidity and limiting wasted effort. I also think core strength has a lot to do with quick returns. Mine was lacking when I started -- still needs work but it's much better now.

I'm still a work in progress, but I think mostly I'm limited by time on the rower now and strength. Getting to SR of 30 for me would mean a 6:55 or so 2K. I'm quite a long bit off of that for now.

I'm going to need at least another week before I join in. I'm getting back in the swing of things now.
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jbhop5857
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by jbhop5857 » May 18th, 2018, 7:01 pm

Good Day,
Man, this week has been screwy with schedule and I intentionally started this week thinking it would be normal. Oh well.

Cycle 1/ Week 1/ Day 4

5k SS @ 2:02 with 30+spm.

I will be upping these distances slowly over the weeks, but really want to focus on the sprints more than I did during the last rounds.

Have a good evening

David
Age: 38
6ft.
235lbs.
2k: 6:50.2 - 2017 Yeah, I count the tenths on this one.
5K: 18:51 - 2017
6K: 23:28 - 2015
10K: 39:49 - 2017
HM: 1:22:48 - 2017
30 Min: 7937 - 2017
60 Min: 15033 - 2015
FM: 3:01:253 - 2017

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jackarabit
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by jackarabit » May 18th, 2018, 9:31 pm

Jbhop writes:
I will be upping these distances slowly over the weeks, but really want to focus on the sprints more than I did during the last rounds.
Good man! :)
There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

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RayOfSunshine
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by RayOfSunshine » May 18th, 2018, 10:16 pm

jbhop5857 wrote: 5k SS @ 2:02 with 30+spm.

I will be upping these distances slowly over the weeks, but really want to focus on the sprints more than I did during the last rounds.

Have a good evening

David
30+ SPM on anything >1k is so far away from my fitness level.

As you up the distance, are you going to keep the SPM >30?
47M, 5'9", 86kg/189lbs
Neptune Beach, FL

Started rowing December 2017
Season goal: sub-40 10k (40:42 on 9/29/18)

jbhop5857
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by jbhop5857 » May 18th, 2018, 10:37 pm

Oh my god, I'm so sorry. I was thinking about my sprints in the morning. Today was 23 spm, not 30. My bad and yeah, I wish I had that fitness level also.

David
Age: 38
6ft.
235lbs.
2k: 6:50.2 - 2017 Yeah, I count the tenths on this one.
5K: 18:51 - 2017
6K: 23:28 - 2015
10K: 39:49 - 2017
HM: 1:22:48 - 2017
30 Min: 7937 - 2017
60 Min: 15033 - 2015
FM: 3:01:253 - 2017

RayOfSunshine
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by RayOfSunshine » May 19th, 2018, 3:07 am

:lol:
jbhop5857 wrote:Oh my god, I'm so sorry. I was thinking about my sprints in the morning. Today was 23 spm, not 30. My bad and yeah, I wish I had that fitness level also.

David
:lol:

Given your PBs, I was picturing you sliding up and back without significant leg drive. :lol:
47M, 5'9", 86kg/189lbs
Neptune Beach, FL

Started rowing December 2017
Season goal: sub-40 10k (40:42 on 9/29/18)

jbhop5857
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by jbhop5857 » May 19th, 2018, 4:37 pm

Good Day,
Well, today was the over 30 spm day.

Cycle 1/ Week 1/ Day 5
8x500 with 3:30R and >30spm

05/19/18
1 146
2 146
3 146
4 146
5 146
6 146
7 146
8 137.5

Avg 144.9

Felt pretty good and I love that the average was under 1:45, even if just barely.
Looking forward to a nice steady UT2 row for Sunday.

Have a great night.

David
Age: 38
6ft.
235lbs.
2k: 6:50.2 - 2017 Yeah, I count the tenths on this one.
5K: 18:51 - 2017
6K: 23:28 - 2015
10K: 39:49 - 2017
HM: 1:22:48 - 2017
30 Min: 7937 - 2017
60 Min: 15033 - 2015
FM: 3:01:253 - 2017

Street
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Location: Liverpool

Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by Street » May 19th, 2018, 8:25 pm

jbhop5857 wrote:Good Day,
Well, today was the over 30 spm day.

Cycle 1/ Week 1/ Day 5
8x500 with 3:30R and >30spm

05/19/18
1 146
2 146
3 146
4 146
5 146
6 146
7 146
8 137.5

Avg 144.9

Felt pretty good and I love that the average was under 1:45, even if just barely.
Looking forward to a nice steady UT2 row for Sunday.

Have a great night.

David
Good work.. You smashed that one! :D I really struggle doing over 30spm on those.

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