2k pace based off 5k?

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
_PBH_
500m Poster
Posts: 66
Joined: February 5th, 2018, 3:31 pm
Location: Southern Utah

2k pace based off 5k?

Post by _PBH_ » May 9th, 2018, 11:37 am

Is it possible to figure out a 2k pace based off a 5k row?

I've been going through a 12 week 5k program. In two more weeks, I'll be rowing another TT. My last 5k TT was completed in 20:42.9 @ 2:04.2.
Tomorrow I'll be rowing a 2x2k / 4' r. My target pace should be faster than my prior 2x2k, which was 2:04.2 pace (the same as my last 5k). That's probably good, considering I'll row it twice (2x2k).

My question is more geared towards a setting a new PB in 2k. It's been a while since I tried beating my current PB: 8:00.4 @ 2:00.1. That PB ironically came while rowing that last 2x2k/4'r. I died on the second 2k (2:08).

Is there a way to figure a good pace for a 2k based off a 5k? Or would it be better to row this 2x2k tomorrow, then figure a goal pace based off how I feel from that row?
What about spm? When rowing 30 - 45' SS rows I usually go between 19-21. When doing shorter interval work I'll pick it up to 25-26. Is this too slow?

(I need to get under 8:00 on a 2k so that I can remove that mental block and move on...)
Brett | 42 | 6'0" | 171lbs
Image

RayOfSunshine
2k Poster
Posts: 264
Joined: December 15th, 2017, 9:45 am

Re: 2k pace based off 5k?

Post by RayOfSunshine » May 9th, 2018, 11:59 am

http://www.machars.net/ultimate.php

This seems to be pretty good.
47M, 5'9", 86kg/189lbs
Neptune Beach, FL

Started rowing December 2017
Season goal: sub-40 10k (41:10 on 5/30/18)

User avatar
hjs
Marathon Poster
Posts: 7517
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 3:18 pm
Location: Amstelveen the netherlands
Contact:

Re: 2k pace based off 5k?

Post by hjs » May 9th, 2018, 1:26 pm

2k is 6/7 seconds below your 5k pb. Both should be max efforts. This is never far off.
For my training see twitter @Hjsrowing

_PBH_
500m Poster
Posts: 66
Joined: February 5th, 2018, 3:31 pm
Location: Southern Utah

Re: 2k pace based off 5k?

Post by _PBH_ » May 9th, 2018, 1:37 pm

@rayofsunshine -- thanks for that link. That will be very helpful in the future.
@hjs -- 6/7 seconds matches up with what the calculator figures. :)


that's exactly what i was looking for. Thanks fellas.
Brett | 42 | 6'0" | 171lbs
Image

lindsayh
Half Marathon Poster
Posts: 2115
Joined: June 23rd, 2013, 3:32 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: 2k pace based off 5k?

Post by lindsayh » May 10th, 2018, 8:24 am

_PBH_ wrote:Is it possible to figure out a 2k pace based off a 5k row?
What about spm? When rowing 30 - 45' SS rows I usually go between 19-21. When doing shorter interval work I'll pick it up to 25-26. Is this too slow?
(I need to get under 8:00 on a 2k so that I can remove that mental block and move on...)
the fastest 2ks are done with SR>30. Good to do the SS at slower rates as you are doing now but need to do some free rate pieces as well. The aim is to get fit enough to hold the faster rate for the 2k holding the power of your slower stroke. Try the 8x 500/3'R and 4x 1k/5'R interval pieces to get used to 2k pace and stroke rate.
Lindsay
66yo 91kg
Sydney Australia
Forum Flyer
PBs (65y+) 1 min 349m, 500m 1:29.8, 1k 3:11.7 2k 6:47.4, 5km 18:07.9, 30' 7928m, 10k 37:57.2

_PBH_
500m Poster
Posts: 66
Joined: February 5th, 2018, 3:31 pm
Location: Southern Utah

Re: 2k pace based off 5k?

Post by _PBH_ » May 10th, 2018, 11:54 am

thanks Lindsay.

This morning I did 2x2k/4'r:
Interval 1: 8:07.9 (2:01.9) @ 26spm
Interval 2: 8:07.2 (2:01.8) @ 25spm

A big positive in this session was that I was able to resist that temptation to throw the training out the window and let 'er rip for a sub 8:00 (like I did last time, then died). I kept that evil voice at bay -- at least until Sunday, maybe...

My schedule for next Tuesday is calling for a 8x500m/2'r. I'll try to bump up that spm closer to 30. I think that should probably be a goal I should be working on (higher spm on shorter sprints).
Brett | 42 | 6'0" | 171lbs
Image

rlboyles
Paddler
Posts: 30
Joined: March 21st, 2015, 8:58 pm

Re: 2k pace based off 5k?

Post by rlboyles » May 10th, 2018, 4:16 pm

You can hope for more. From my experience (and I'm sure many others on this site), the 6 to 7 seconds is not set in stone. Last year my 2K pace was 8.7 seconds less than my 5K pace.

I think it depends on which of the two events you feel most closely mimics your body type. I am better at the short stuff. If I use a calculator that projects my 5K time based on my best 2K time... I am betting I'd find that I am weak at the longer 5K.

Dangerscouse
10k Poster
Posts: 1346
Joined: April 27th, 2014, 11:11 am
Location: Liverpool, England

Re: 2k pace based off 5k?

Post by Dangerscouse » May 11th, 2018, 12:40 am

Always hope for more, but I have very recently done a 2k PB and it was 6.4 seconds faster than my 5k PB.

I think 6-7 seconds is likely but with some real effort and digging deep why not hope for more?
44 Years Old; 6' 4"; 95kg; Liverpool, England 2k= 6:38; 5k= 17:29; 6k= 21:54; 10k= 36:21 30mins= 8,264m 60mins= 16,317m HM= 1:18:40; FM= 2:49:39; 50k= 3:28:18; 75k=5:29:15; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

Instagram: stuwenman

User avatar
hjs
Marathon Poster
Posts: 7517
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 3:18 pm
Location: Amstelveen the netherlands
Contact:

Re: 2k pace based off 5k?

Post by hjs » May 11th, 2018, 3:34 am

Dangerscouse wrote:Always hope for more, but I have very recently done a 2k PB and it was 6.4 seconds faster than my 5k PB.

I think 6-7 seconds is likely but with some real effort and digging deep why not hope for more?
Hope? Its not a game, you work for every meter :P

A alround trained rower will not have a bigger gap. Sprinters will, and pure stayers a bit less.
For my training see twitter @Hjsrowing

Dangerscouse
10k Poster
Posts: 1346
Joined: April 27th, 2014, 11:11 am
Location: Liverpool, England

Re: 2k pace based off 5k?

Post by Dangerscouse » May 11th, 2018, 4:53 am

hjs wrote:
Hope? Its not a game, you work for every meter :P
.
Hahaha, hope is the precursor of effort. Without belief you won't try, and if you don't try you definitely won't get better.
44 Years Old; 6' 4"; 95kg; Liverpool, England 2k= 6:38; 5k= 17:29; 6k= 21:54; 10k= 36:21 30mins= 8,264m 60mins= 16,317m HM= 1:18:40; FM= 2:49:39; 50k= 3:28:18; 75k=5:29:15; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

Instagram: stuwenman

User avatar
hjs
Marathon Poster
Posts: 7517
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 3:18 pm
Location: Amstelveen the netherlands
Contact:

Re: 2k pace based off 5k?

Post by hjs » May 11th, 2018, 6:59 am

Dangerscouse wrote:
hjs wrote:
Hope? Its not a game, you work for every meter :P
.
Hahaha, hope is the precursor of effort. Without belief you won't try, and if you don't try you definitely won't get better.
Its a numbers game, based on that you know what you can. There is very little wiggle room.
For my training see twitter @Hjsrowing

User avatar
jackarabit
Marathon Poster
Posts: 4319
Joined: June 14th, 2014, 9:51 am

Re: 2k pace based off 5k?

Post by jackarabit » May 11th, 2018, 11:56 am

If the numbers already support your conviction that you can, you have a good probability of succeeding.
If desire fuels your conviction that you must, knock yourself out. :lol:

Never occurred to me that one can pb a distance or time done in interval format but I see now that it doesn’t much matter if done from a dead wheel start. I could change a couple of mine by a second or two but why bother.
There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

M_71_5'-7"_164lb
Image

Training Log

User avatar
Remo
500m Poster
Posts: 81
Joined: October 17th, 2017, 7:21 pm

Re: 2k pace based off 5k?

Post by Remo » May 11th, 2018, 7:59 pm

A good bit of advice, above:

I get a bit better prediction using the Free Spirit Pace Predictor (http://www.freespiritsrowing.com/forum/ ... -predictor as compared to the "Ultimate Erg Calculator" (which uses Paul's Law) cited by Sunshine, above. But that's only because it requires two data points which allows it to differentiate between the tortoises and hares.

Plugging in two data points into UEC and extrapolating, in my experience, gives an accuracy similar to the FSPP
Stewart MH 61 https://log.concept2.com/profile/4926
Started rowing at Cal in 1975 and sculled for a few years thereafter. Still follow the sport religiously. Have kept in shape with occasional bouts with the erg, a bit more often recently

User avatar
hjs
Marathon Poster
Posts: 7517
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 3:18 pm
Location: Amstelveen the netherlands
Contact:

Re: 2k pace based off 5k?

Post by hjs » May 12th, 2018, 3:16 am

Remo wrote:A good bit of advice, above:

I get a bit better prediction using the Free Spirit Pace Predictor (http://www.freespiritsrowing.com/forum/ ... -predictor as compared to the "Ultimate Erg Calculator" (which uses Paul's Law) cited by Sunshine, above. But that's only because it requires two data points which allows it to differentiate between the tortoises and hares.

Plugging in two data points into UEC and extrapolating, in my experience, gives an accuracy similar to the FSPP
Always use your personal predictors, people differ a good bit, you need predictors around the distance you are targeting.
There is no straight line, so just using 2points will be off a good bit.

Use stuff like 8x500 4x1k 4x2k etc..
For my training see twitter @Hjsrowing

GJS
2k Poster
Posts: 303
Joined: March 28th, 2016, 1:21 pm

Re: 2k pace based off 5k?

Post by GJS » May 12th, 2018, 5:09 am

Thanks for the link to the FSPP, Remo.
My two inputs, a 250 and a 5k, put me at a 6.57 2k.
Strikes me as very accurate indeed.
So much so I suspect it renders actually tackling the 2k pretty much unnecessary. B)
Gary
41, 5'11'', 210lbs

Post Reply