Steady State for Noobs?

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
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thejosephwilbur
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Steady State for Noobs?

Post by thejosephwilbur » May 20th, 2018, 12:41 pm

So on the Pete 5k Plan, it says do SS every other day. What are the steps I can take to setting up a steady state workout for a total noob?

I understand that there is a whole 'step test' process, but for many that is a bit difficult to obtain. However, that seems to be the best way of determing SS splits, so how would I go about doing a 'step test?'

Many seem to just opt for doing SS based on heart rate, so how would I go about calculating my SS heart rate? Any specific heart rate monitor I should buy for rowing - are the ones on the C2 website okay?

When it says "10k+" what does this mean?

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jackarabit
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Re: Steady State for Noobs?

Post by jackarabit » May 20th, 2018, 1:24 pm

You’re what—16? Screw heart rate. 8 to 15k meters depending on time available, @ a sustainable and comfortable rate 4 U and 10k PB pace + 3~5”. Warning: boredom lies in wait! Be patient.
Last edited by jackarabit on May 20th, 2018, 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

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JerekKruger
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Re: Steady State for Noobs?

Post by JerekKruger » May 20th, 2018, 1:26 pm

The easiest is to do is to base it off your 2k pace, either 2k+25ish or 50-60% of your 2k power.

If you're going to use heart rate you should know two things: your resting heart rate (check this first thing in the morning before getting up over a few days and use the lowest value) and your maximum heart rate (either do a heart rate step test or use the highest value your see in training e.g. the value at the end of a 5k time trial). Stick these values into this calculator http://www.freespiritsrowing.com/forum/ ... calculator and the lowest two bands (UT2 and UT1) are your steady state heart rate zones. Which of the two you use depends on the distance and how much recovery capacity you have (if you're fatigued don't do a long UT1 piece).

I use a Wahoo Tickr heart rate monitor (I don't think the TickrX adds anything useful for rowing) together with the ErgData app (not needed if you have a PM5 or above, but handy for PM3s). I think any reputable heart rate monitor is fine. I used a Polar H7 (the one that Concept2 sells) for a while and it was great until it stopped working reliable. It lasted around six months of fairly heavy use. No idea if that's bad or good and have only had the Tickr for a few weeks so can't say how long that'll last.

10k+ means do at least 10k, but feel free to do more. Again do as much as you feel you can recover from/have time for: metres are what will give you the best bang for your buck in the long term (top rowers row 200k+ a week for a reason).
Tom | 33 | 6'6" | 93kg

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JerekKruger
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Re: Steady State for Noobs?

Post by JerekKruger » May 20th, 2018, 1:27 pm

jackarabit wrote:You’re what—16? Screw heart rate. 8 to 15k meters depending on time available, @ a sustainable and comfortable rate 4 U and 10k PB pace + 3~5”. Warning: boredom lies in wait! Be patient.
Good point!
Tom | 33 | 6'6" | 93kg

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Dangerscouse
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Re: Steady State for Noobs?

Post by Dangerscouse » May 20th, 2018, 1:38 pm

As Jack says just row at what you think is a sustainable pace and see how you get on. If I was you I'd try 2:10 pace and see how that feels after 2-3km, you'll know by that point if you need to slow down or speed up. You've got a good level of fitness from what you have said previously so 2:10 might be too slow

Don't worry if it feels fairly easy, as you just need to rack up the metres, focus on technique & breathing, keeping the stroke slow and not trying to break any records, but you don't want it too easy. Probably 5 out of 10 in effort

I have only used a HR monitor fairly recently and I'm not a massive fan of them so they aren't essential.
44 Years Old; 6' 4"; 95kg; Liverpool, England 2k= 6:38; 5k= 17:29; 6k= 21:54; 10k= 36:21 30mins= 8,264m 60mins= 16,317m HM= 1:18:40; FM= 2:49:39; 50k= 3:28:18; 75k=5:29:15; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

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Allan Olesen
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Re: Steady State for Noobs?

Post by Allan Olesen » May 20th, 2018, 2:08 pm

If you want to use a heart rate monitor, make sure that it fits your PM if you want your heart rate recorded with the other data from the row.

The PM3 requires a Polar HRM and a receiver.

The PM5 can use any generic HRM as long as it supports the Ant+ protocol - I use the HRM for my Garmin watch. No receiver is required. I suppose it also supports Polar HRMs, but I haven' tried.

I don't know about the PM4.

I have noticed that a lot of rowers don't care about heart rate. I think it is a fantastic tool to track progress, especially when you are following a training schedule where you are not supposed to go to your max. in every workout. The more Watt I can pull at a given heart rate during a steady state workout, the better shape I am in. I don't need to wait for the next exhausting 2k test to know if I have improved or not.

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jackarabit
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Re: Steady State for Noobs?

Post by jackarabit » May 20th, 2018, 2:35 pm

Allan Oleson writes:
The more Watt I can pull at a given heart rate during a steady state workout, the better shape I am in.
PM4 is also ANT+ enabled so no transceiver dongle necessary as with PM3 and the old Polar analog belts.

Heart rate is helpful if you wish to cap effort and/or hr itself. Proxies they are said to be except that the determination of hrmax is such a merry garden of misinfo. I used to calculate percentage of 2k watts for Pete Plan session results and set against percentage HRReserve plus RestingHR of the session hr average. Thusly: x% of 2kwatts for y% of HRR. This was seen as stubbornly and naively heterodox as Pete Plan “is not HR based.” There are times and places where syncretism and synthesis is welcome. Others not so much. When in Rome have belt AND suspenders at hand. Don’t wear em ensemble without asking permission. :lol:
There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

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Allan Olesen
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Re: Steady State for Noobs?

Post by Allan Olesen » May 20th, 2018, 3:52 pm

jackarabit wrote:except that the determination of hrmax is such a merry garden of misinfo.
I have no idea why people insist on using hrmax. It seems to me that most moderate-to-high intensity training is aimed at training somewhat above or somewhat below lactate threshold. The correlation between lactate threshold and hrmax is rather poor - and probably even worse if you base your hrmax on an age formula. So why not skip the superfluous hrmax calculation step and use your lactate threshold for determining hr targets instead?

(I am probably too influenced by the only book I ever read on the subject. It was written by Joe Friel who directly warns people against trying to find their hrmax.)
jackarabit wrote: I used to calculate percentage of 2k watts for Pete Plan session results and set against percentage HRReserve plus RestingHR of the session hr average. Thusly: x% of 2kwatts for y% of HRR.
I do something similar, though not using %HRR, but instead using number of beats above my resting heart rate + 10 BPM. The reason for the +10 BPM is simply that this is where the (extrapolated) curve hits 0 Watt if I plot heart rate against power for a workout with slowly increasing intensity.

Ripples
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Re: Steady State for Noobs?

Post by Ripples » May 20th, 2018, 10:03 pm

Cardiio, developed by MIT Media Lab, is a great app for checking your heart rate. I use it most mornings for my RHR. Available free for iOS or Android.

I use a HR monitor because my workouts on the erg and the water (kayak) are to build cardio endurance. I don't erg for the sake of erging. I use my 2D as a training tool for my primary sport, which is paddling. I also use a heart rate formula for women, 206 minus (0.88 * age) = MHR. My SS sessions are 60%-80% of MHR. On the erg, I'll toss in a couple of HIITs but not on the water because my technique starts falling apart.

The program works for me. Different strokes for different folks...

jamesg
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Re: Steady State for Noobs?

Post by jamesg » May 21st, 2018, 12:51 am

What are the steps I can take to setting up a steady state workout for a total noob?
It's more or less like learning to ride a bike: learn how, then do it.

Step 1: learn to row hard at low rating: according to weight, age and sex, about 2W per kg at rating 18-22. This can take a year or so.
During that year:
Step 2: set the readout to Watts, start pulling and hold the Watts at any level you like, so long as it's enough to produce sweat within 5-10 minutes according to temperature and humidity. Then continue for 20 minutes.
77y, 188cm, 85kg, MHR 160. Last 2k (May 1018) 8.37@23

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