Really off day - Handle Down, or slow down?

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
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Ombrax
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Really off day - Handle Down, or slow down?

Post by Ombrax » October 24th, 2018, 4:25 am

I won't bore you with the details, but today I wasn't feeling that great mentally or physically, and about halfway through my single distance rowing session tonight I started to think that I really wasn't going to make it all the way at my intended pace (which to that point I had been able to maintain). For a while I was able to use the "do another 1k" then "do another 500m" thing, but at the 3/4 point I decided that I really couldn't keep it up and had to choose between slowing down and quitting. I finally said "f-this" and put the hand down. I could have slowed down, but I didn't want to see a slow average in the memory (and it was easier to stop). Over the last year or so this is the first time I've stopped part of the way through a fixed-distance workout and I'm feeling pretty guilty about it, and it isn't a habit I want to continue.

Bottom line question: Is one option considered better or worse than the other? What do you usually do on a day when you just don't have it?

TIA

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Gammmmo
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Re: Really off day - Handle Down, or slow down?

Post by Gammmmo » October 24th, 2018, 4:35 am

Drop back to an easier session. Do bear in mind the body's ability to "fool you". That's why I have test distances at a certain pace prior to the main bit when doing something hard. I think u should always come away with some sense of completion. The caveat being when you're genuinely ill in which case u shouldn't have gotten on the erg arguably in the first place.
47M, 5'11" 75kg (+10!), ex bike time trialler.
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Targets: 36:59(10K), >8200m for 30mins, 6:44(2K), 3:12(1K), 1:27(500m), 350m+ (1min)

Erg on!

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Papy
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Re: Really off day - Handle Down, or slow down?

Post by Papy » October 24th, 2018, 4:52 am

A related snippet from a very interesting & recent interview of Graham Benton :

https://youtu.be/g2DoYewbxzE?t=2418
Olivier - UK - 44M, 110kg, 1m88 - PB:1'00:332m/500m: 1'36"9/1k: 3'38.9/2k: 7'29.3/5k:20'03.5/10k:42'37.4 / 30 min:7,367m /60min:13,547m/HM:1h33'43".8

Dangerscouse
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Re: Really off day - Handle Down, or slow down?

Post by Dangerscouse » October 24th, 2018, 9:23 am

It can be very difficult to recalibrate expectations and slow down, but I find that working off a specific stroke rate rather than pace is a great solution.

I have kept going with quite a few sessions using this method, by just saying in my head "let the rate dictate the pace". I think that is advice taken from Graham Benton. I have also HDed a number of times when I have let it bother me too much.

It's always preferable, mentally and physically, to complete the session but as Paul says, not if you're erging when you should be resting. If you do HD, just be sure to make amends the next time; every action should have a reaction.
45 HWT; 6' 4"; Liverpool, England 2k= 6:38; 5k= 17:27; 6k= 21:23; 10k= 36:21 30mins= 8,356m 60mins= 16,317m HM= 1:18:40; FM= 2:49:39; 50k= 3:28:18; 75k=5:29:15; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you Row"

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johnlvs2run
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Re: Really off day - Handle Down, or slow down?

Post by johnlvs2run » October 24th, 2018, 10:58 am

Ombrax wrote:
October 24th, 2018, 4:25 am
I started to think that I really wasn't going to make it all the way at my intended pace
You should be training, not straining. Your base pace should be comfortable. Try rowing by feel for awhile.
Get some tape and paper or cardboard, cut out a space for the overall time or distance, and cover up the rest of the monitor,
including the pace and rating. Just go at whatever pace you feel like, until you reach your intended time or distance.
72, 5'8", 155lbs
Let's develop a watts per weight ranking system.
my training log

jamesg
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Re: Really off day - Handle Down, or slow down?

Post by jamesg » October 24th, 2018, 11:29 am

I always discover it's an off day, to start with. So I start slow and maybe stop at five minutes, then go again after minute or two, steadily increasing my very low Watts (nowadays below 1.5 W/kg). Usually works. If not it's a surprise rest day, just one of many.

Point is that going slower than slow, warmup is a very long process.
77y, 188cm, 85kg, MHR 160. Last 2k (May 1018) 8.37@23

Cyclist2
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Re: Really off day - Handle Down, or slow down?

Post by Cyclist2 » October 24th, 2018, 1:29 pm

johnlvs2run wrote:
October 24th, 2018, 10:58 am
Get some tape and paper or cardboard, cut out a space for the overall time or distance, and cover up the rest of the monitor,
including the pace and rating. Just go at whatever pace you feel like, until you reach your intended time or distance.
I do this a lot in the early going, until I get a base built up and can actually start "training". Sometimes I cover the whole monitor and just glance at the clock on the wall. Put on some good music, and just row. I usually surprise myself with my results when I remove the blindfold from the monitor.
Mark Underwood. Rower first, cyclist too.

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Re: Really off day - Handle Down, or slow down?

Post by KeithT » October 24th, 2018, 4:25 pm

I recently had the exact thing happen to me and asked about it on here as well. I had been doing great in workouts and setting PRs and then during a 4x1000 I quit halfway thru the last round as I couldn't stand to see the pace I was on. I felt really bad about it until I got a lot of feedback on here that its OK - just wasn't my day and to move on. Also realized I had sort of a unrealistic goal that day. Anyway, it s what it is. If I am in the same situation again I would prob finish but that was for a short row and just be happy I got a workout in. A few days after this I PR'd my 500m after doing a CF workout (CF coach programmed it - wasn't planning on testing it) - I guess that day I was back to normal or better. So, just go get it next time.
50 yo, 6'3" 205#
PBs (all since turning 50):
1 min - 369m, 500m - 1:23.7, 1K - 3:01.8, 4 min - 1265, 2K - 6:31.6, 5K - 17:37, 30 min - 8277m, 10K - 36:30, 60 min - 16036, HM - 1:20:48

Cyclingman1
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Re: Really off day - Handle Down, or slow down?

Post by Cyclingman1 » October 24th, 2018, 8:06 pm

You've got to have confidence in your training plan and in yourself. If the plan is not doable, then one is setting up for failure. I would think that aiming for constant PRs in training is a guaranteed way to fall short. Adjustments are always required in training. It's not a bad thing. Training is not evaluated over one day. Anything less than a month is too quick. Written plans are a starting point, a suggestion. Feel free to improvise or deviate. JimG
JimG, Gainesville, Ga, 72,187lb,76”. PBs since age 66: (.5,1,2,5,6,10K)1:30.8, 3:14.1, 6:40.7, 17:34, 21:18.1, 36:21.7;
(1,30,60’)332, 8337, 16237; (HM)1:20:25.

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Carl Watts
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Re: Really off day - Handle Down, or slow down?

Post by Carl Watts » October 24th, 2018, 10:28 pm

Pretty much a handle down is a no go for psychological reasons.

Have only done it twice, during a 2K PB attempt and my first FM attempt.

Took ages to get over the 2K but the FM I started rowing at 3AM after rolling out of bed 15 minutes before so I guess it was justified that I quit with 10km to go due to lack of hydration and a bit of hallucination and the room spinning.

You can always just slow down, even if you blow out to 2:30 plus pace if its a training session.
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Concept 2 Monitor Service Technician & indoor rower.
http://log.concept2.com/profile/863525/log

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hjs
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Re: Really off day - Handle Down, or slow down?

Post by hjs » October 25th, 2018, 3:06 am

If you never handle down, you are not really trying. Everybody who always gets there sessions in, is basicly underachieving.

It should not be a habit ofcourse.
For my training see twitter @Hjsrowing

Dangerscouse
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Re: Really off day - Handle Down, or slow down?

Post by Dangerscouse » October 25th, 2018, 4:40 am

hjs wrote:
October 25th, 2018, 3:06 am
If you never handle down, you are not really trying. Everybody who always gets there sessions in, is basicly underachieving.

It should not be a habit ofcourse.
I totally agree with this. I'm not saying under-achieving is a problem if you aren't inclined to really test your abilities but if you are really trying to push your boundaries you will HD at some point as your emotional response from your brain is too dominant in times of extreme stress: sometimes you will control it, sometimes it will control you.
45 HWT; 6' 4"; Liverpool, England 2k= 6:38; 5k= 17:27; 6k= 21:23; 10k= 36:21 30mins= 8,356m 60mins= 16,317m HM= 1:18:40; FM= 2:49:39; 50k= 3:28:18; 75k=5:29:15; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you Row"

Instagram: stuwenman

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Gammmmo
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Re: Really off day - Handle Down, or slow down?

Post by Gammmmo » October 25th, 2018, 5:17 am

This concept of HD is fairly unqiue. When you out doing a hard run or bike ride or racing (other sports similar) then there is no real option to just STOP, you just slow down a bit or suffer as best you can. The erg is an amazing tool which I have found invaluable to get the same kind of training buzz of pushing myself very hard now I'm not doing triathlon/running/biking races e.g. it's just so convenient, but the fact that it's an indoors item of equipment is (in this sense re: the topic title) it's weakness. I wonder if someone who does online racing against real competitors with the erg could chime in as to whether HD is in that situation less common. I'd imagine it'd be less of an issue but still not directly comparable as being outside racing or say doing intervals.
47M, 5'11" 75kg (+10!), ex bike time trialler.
Image
Targets: 36:59(10K), >8200m for 30mins, 6:44(2K), 3:12(1K), 1:27(500m), 350m+ (1min)

Erg on!

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hjs
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Re: Really off day - Handle Down, or slow down?

Post by hjs » October 25th, 2018, 6:38 am

Gammmmo wrote:
October 25th, 2018, 5:17 am
This concept of HD is fairly unqiue. When you out doing a hard run or bike ride or racing (other sports similar) then there is no real option to just STOP, you just slow down a bit or suffer as best you can. The erg is an amazing tool which I have found invaluable to get the same kind of training buzz of pushing myself very hard now I'm not doing triathlon/running/biking races e.g. it's just so convenient, but the fact that it's an indoors item of equipment is (in this sense re: the topic title) it's weakness. I wonder if someone who does online racing against real competitors with the erg could chime in as to whether HD is in that situation less common. I'd imagine it'd be less of an issue but still not directly comparable as being outside racing or say doing intervals.
A hd is not stopping, but giving up, so outdoors you also see "hd".

At races Hd are common, people all of a sudden dropping the split is often to be seen. Most do finish, but thats just cosmetics. You had to let go, just getting to the finish, to me, does not mean you did not Hd.
For my training see twitter @Hjsrowing

lindsayh
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Re: Really off day - Handle Down, or slow down?

Post by lindsayh » October 25th, 2018, 6:57 am

Gammmmo wrote:
October 25th, 2018, 5:17 am
This concept of HD is fairly unique.
I wonder if someone who does online racing against real competitors with the erg could chime in as to whether HD is in that situation less common. I'd imagine it'd be less of an issue but still not directly comparable as being outside racing or say doing intervals.
I have never really understood the concern about HD - happens to me a bit. IMO it is not a failure but just part of the training we do. Need to explore the limits from time to time to find out where they are. And we are just training for fun and games - no big deal! Why beat yourself up?
Not raced on line but never seen someone stop in a race but probably there are some who might back off to finish as henry describes.
Lindsay
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PBs (65y+) 1 min 349m, 500m 1:29.8, 1k 3:11.7 2k 6:47.4, 5km 18:07.9, 30' 7928m, 10k 37:57.2

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