Noob errors from a newbie, some tips & encouragement

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
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Ombrax
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Re: Noob errors from a newbie, some tips & encouragement

Post by Ombrax » July 24th, 2019, 1:54 am

LPF4 wrote:
July 23rd, 2019, 11:22 pm
I just keep rowing at a HR of 125-130
If you're in the mood to discuss your approach, how did you choose this as your range during your erg sessions? Have you tried to figure out about what your max is? Have you considered doing a few pieces at higher HRR numbers? Just wondering, mainly because I'm thinking that it may help to also do a bit more at somewhat higher efforts. (But I'm hardly an expert, so take that as you wish.)

Tim huges
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Re: Noob errors from a newbie, some tips & encouragement

Post by Tim huges » July 24th, 2019, 4:20 am

Dangerscouse wrote:
July 23rd, 2019, 2:18 pm
Tim huges wrote:
July 23rd, 2019, 11:03 am
Getting used to a distance, especially over circa 30 mins / 8k is very helpful. Confidence is a subjective construct and not an objective truth, so when you can do a longer distance you have proven memories to rely on when it gets tough.

When I decided to do my ultra distances I had done a slow 26km once about five years previously and six HMs in my rowing life; nothing else. Within about six weeks I had built up to a FM all due to just saying I was going to do it and building up the distances week by week.

An FM isn't as bad as it seems, but be careful of the last 10k, especially if you haven't fuelled up properly as you progressed through the KMs
What would you suggest for a pre marathon meal? Just carbs, or is it useful to get some fats in there aswell? Do you ever use those carb-gel satchet things during the piece? How did you feel after your first, no doubt tired but to what extent...if im going to be unable to walk properly for a day or two id better do it on a friday so i have the weekend to rest.

I want another stab at my 2k PB within the next few months, sub 6:30 (im hoping)...but after i fully intend to smash my 10k PB and work on 60min/HM/FM times. I may attempt a HM within the next few weeks, just to get a feel more than anything.
34yrs 6ft 250lbs England
Started Jan 2019
500m 1:31.6
2k 6:41.0
10k 37:34
HM 1:28:58

KEEP CALM AND 30R20

mitchel674
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Re: Noob errors from a newbie, some tips & encouragement

Post by mitchel674 » July 24th, 2019, 8:48 am

LPF4 wrote:
July 23rd, 2019, 11:22 pm
mitchel674 wrote:
July 23rd, 2019, 9:05 am
LPF4 wrote:
July 22nd, 2019, 8:52 pm
That should have read in the same shape.

Also, after rowing every few days for a month the BEGINNING PETE PLAN is way too much for someone that's way out of shape. I find that I can only row every other day and I'm just working up to a 5k.
As far as the beginner Pete plan, I don't know anyone here who would recommend the BPP for a total Noob. I do often recommend the BPP for beginners because I enjoyed the structure and gradual escalation of meters. BUT, new rowers should spend a few weeks on their technique and building up some level of rowing endurance and proficiency before embarking on the BPP. One should be able to comfortably row a 5k at a steady state pace before starting the BPP.
When you're new and you see PP and BPP you think BPP applies to you. After rowing a week or so you realize it's not going to happen. Also after lots of reading you find that you need to do lots of Steady State work just to get a base. I'm a month in and we will see what happens as I go. I just keep rowing at a HR of 125-130 which puts me at 3 min/500M. I did 5500 today and will rest a few days due to the soreness that will be coming on.
I'm a few years ahead of you in age, but I got into rowing almost 2 years ago consistently with the same attitude you have. I was looking for a great workout that I could prove to myself and my wife would be something I could do with consistency. I've still got a long way to go, but I'm in the best shape of my life due to rowing.

Do yourself a favor early on and make sure your rowing technique is good. Soreness has not been an issue for me. It may point to a problem with your stroke which you should address and fix now before it becomes a tough habit to break or leads to injury. Post a video of you rowing here for some help and guidance.

Keep up with your great attitude and continue to add to your rowing distance. The BPP really helps with those gains.
55yo male, 6ft, 154lbs

Dangerscouse
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Re: Noob errors from a newbie, some tips & encouragement

Post by Dangerscouse » July 24th, 2019, 12:23 pm

Tim huges wrote:
July 24th, 2019, 4:20 am

What would you suggest for a pre marathon meal? Just carbs, or is it useful to get some fats in there aswell? Do you ever use those carb-gel satchet things during the piece? How did you feel after your first, no doubt tired but to what extent...if im going to be unable to walk properly for a day or two id better do it on a friday so i have the weekend to rest.

I want another stab at my 2k PB within the next few months, sub 6:30 (im hoping)...but after i fully intend to smash my 10k PB and work on 60min/HM/FM times. I may attempt a HM within the next few weeks, just to get a feel more than anything.
I always had a bowl of porridge circa 2.5 hours before starting. Fats are up to you, maybe some coconut oil melted into it? I also had a banana before starting and I sometimes had a few cashew nuts as I progressed.

I had a strict hydration system of every 15-20 mins to sip liquids. For a FM you can get by on 50/50 diluted OJ or similar with a pinch of salt and a teaspoon of sugar (fructose is slower to be absorbed so the glucose speeds it up), also water too; a litre of each was good for me

Be careful of energy gels as some will give you stomach ache. SIS reacted badly with me, but I loved High5 Energy gels from Wiggle.co.uk or the ultimate, but costly, were Tailwind sachets on Amazon. I'd only recommend these for longer than 50km sessions but you may want to give them a go. They fuelled me far better for my really longer distances than diluted OJ and water did.

You will be sore, but if you build up to it it's not too bad. It's more of a mental battle and you feel quite empty and drained, but elated that you have done it. As I alluded to you're basically training for the last 10k, this is when things get tasty! If you have fuelled and hydrated properly and haven't gone too fast you might sail through but if you're going to hit the wall, this is when it will happen.

Finally I loved a cut up yoga mat in a pillow case for cushioning, but I only used it after about 1.5/2 hours as there was no benefit if I used to straight away.
46 HWT; 6' 4"; 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:24; 6k= 21:09; 10k= 35:46 30mins= 8,428m 60mins= 16,331m HM= 1:18:25; FM= 2:45:49; 50k= 3:21:14; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you row"

Instagram: stuwenman

Tim huges
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Re: Noob errors from a newbie, some tips & encouragement

Post by Tim huges » July 24th, 2019, 12:39 pm

Dangerscouse wrote:
July 24th, 2019, 12:23 pm
Tim huges wrote:
July 24th, 2019, 4:20 am
I always had a bowl of porridge circa 2.5 hours before starting. Fats are up to you, maybe some coconut oil melted into it? I also had a banana before starting and I sometimes had a few cashew nuts as I progressed.

I had a strict hydration system of every 15-20 mins to sip liquids. For a FM you can get by on 50/50 diluted OJ or similar with a pinch of salt and a teaspoon of sugar (fructose is slower to be absorbed so the glucose speeds it up), also water too; a litre of each was good for me

Be careful of energy gels as some will give you stomach ache. SIS reacted badly with me, but I loved High5 Energy gels from Wiggle.co.uk or the ultimate, but costly, were Tailwind sachets on Amazon. I'd only recommend these for longer than 50km sessions but you may want to give them a go. They fuelled me far better for my really longer distances than diluted OJ and water did.

You will be sore, but if you build up to it it's not too bad. It's more of a mental battle and you feel quite empty and drained, but elated that you have done it. As I alluded to you're basically training for the last 10k, this is when things get tasty! If you have fuelled and hydrated properly and haven't gone too fast you might sail through but if you're going to hit the wall, this is when it will happen.

Finally I loved a cut up yoga mat in a pillow case for cushioning, but I only used it after about 1.5/2 hours as there was no benefit if I used to straight away.
Thankyou Stu, always generous with the advice. Whenever the time comes to attempt one, i'll be re-reading your previous post on distractions/coping stratagies! Cant wait to test myself actually. I like to think of myself as mentally robust...i do have my weaker moments i have to admit. First things first, need to get this HM done...then crank up the distance to prepare for it.
34yrs 6ft 250lbs England
Started Jan 2019
500m 1:31.6
2k 6:41.0
10k 37:34
HM 1:28:58

KEEP CALM AND 30R20

mitchel674
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Posts: 1002
Joined: January 20th, 2015, 4:26 pm

Re: Noob errors from a newbie, some tips & encouragement

Post by mitchel674 » July 24th, 2019, 1:13 pm

Tim huges wrote:
July 24th, 2019, 12:39 pm
Dangerscouse wrote:
July 24th, 2019, 12:23 pm
Tim huges wrote:
July 24th, 2019, 4:20 am
I always had a bowl of porridge circa 2.5 hours before starting. Fats are up to you, maybe some coconut oil melted into it? I also had a banana before starting and I sometimes had a few cashew nuts as I progressed.

I had a strict hydration system of every 15-20 mins to sip liquids. For a FM you can get by on 50/50 diluted OJ or similar with a pinch of salt and a teaspoon of sugar (fructose is slower to be absorbed so the glucose speeds it up), also water too; a litre of each was good for me

Be careful of energy gels as some will give you stomach ache. SIS reacted badly with me, but I loved High5 Energy gels from Wiggle.co.uk or the ultimate, but costly, were Tailwind sachets on Amazon. I'd only recommend these for longer than 50km sessions but you may want to give them a go. They fuelled me far better for my really longer distances than diluted OJ and water did.

You will be sore, but if you build up to it it's not too bad. It's more of a mental battle and you feel quite empty and drained, but elated that you have done it. As I alluded to you're basically training for the last 10k, this is when things get tasty! If you have fuelled and hydrated properly and haven't gone too fast you might sail through but if you're going to hit the wall, this is when it will happen.

Finally I loved a cut up yoga mat in a pillow case for cushioning, but I only used it after about 1.5/2 hours as there was no benefit if I used to straight away.


Thankyou Stu, always generous with the advice. Whenever the time comes to attempt one, i'll be re-reading your previous post on distractions/coping stratagies! Cant wait to test myself actually. I like to think of myself as mentally robust...i do have my weaker moments i have to admit. First things first, need to get this HM done...then crank up the distance to prepare for it.
Do yourself a favor and download Eddie Fletcher's guide to marathon training. It's a great read and he touches on things like food and hydration. It's also a good 12 week marathon training program. I'm in the middle of it right now.
55yo male, 6ft, 154lbs

Tim huges
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Posts: 174
Joined: July 7th, 2019, 5:24 am

Re: Noob errors from a newbie, some tips & encouragement

Post by Tim huges » July 24th, 2019, 1:57 pm

Thanks mitchel...his site says under construction but i'll bookmark it for the near future when it comes back on.
34yrs 6ft 250lbs England
Started Jan 2019
500m 1:31.6
2k 6:41.0
10k 37:34
HM 1:28:58

KEEP CALM AND 30R20

LPF4
Paddler
Posts: 13
Joined: June 23rd, 2019, 11:56 pm

Re: Noob errors from a newbie, some tips & encouragement

Post by LPF4 » July 24th, 2019, 9:48 pm

Ombrax wrote:
July 24th, 2019, 1:54 am
LPF4 wrote:
July 23rd, 2019, 11:22 pm
I just keep rowing at a HR of 125-130
If you're in the mood to discuss your approach, how did you choose this as your range during your erg sessions? Have you tried to figure out about what your max is? Have you considered doing a few pieces at higher HRR numbers? Just wondering, mainly because I'm thinking that it may help to also do a bit more at somewhat higher efforts. (But I'm hardly an expert, so take that as you wish.)
Open to any suggestions and appreciate the help. Since I'm so new to rowing and exercise in general, thought I'd just get some distance under my belt to where I'm not sucking wind or sore. I'm not sore like when you lift weights, but more like when you do yard work or shovel a lot. Just minor soreness everywhere. For the HR I took an actual rate from one of my baselines. It was 170 which is close to what I had in the past of 174. Now I probably should have used a resting HR but I used one from my Fit Bit when I was sleeping, 64. Then put those in on an online calculator. Found a few and they all are about the same, but settled on trying to stay in the 125-130 range. Once warmed up I stay at 130.

Since I'm up to 5500m I'm confident I could begin BPP but was thinking I would just keep going at the 125-130 rate and increase my volume until 10k. I pretty much row every other day and add 500m each time. After two months of this then start BPP.
Started 6-24-2019
Male 48
Baseline 6/2019 - 500/2:26, 2k/10:40, 5k/27:09

Best 8/2019 - 500/2:05

LPF4
Paddler
Posts: 13
Joined: June 23rd, 2019, 11:56 pm

Re: Noob errors from a newbie, some tips & encouragement

Post by LPF4 » July 24th, 2019, 9:59 pm

mitchel674 wrote:
July 24th, 2019, 8:48 am


I'm a few years ahead of you in age, but I got into rowing almost 2 years ago consistently with the same attitude you have. I was looking for a great workout that I could prove to myself and my wife would be something I could do with consistency. I've still got a long way to go, but I'm in the best shape of my life due to rowing.

Do yourself a favor early on and make sure your rowing technique is good. Soreness has not been an issue for me. It may point to a problem with your stroke which you should address and fix now before it becomes a tough habit to break or leads to injury. Post a video of you rowing here for some help and guidance.

Keep up with your great attitude and continue to add to your rowing distance. The BPP really helps with those gains.
Thanks for the support. I do need to do some more work on technique but for now just trying to get some level of fitness. I find that when I have no fitness I try to compensate with bad technique. So chicken and the egg situation. The soreness is from being out of shape, and likely not enough nurtrients, rest. For now just keep rowing at a SS pace. I'm really enjoying the low impact and semi full body work out rowing provides.

I'll post stroke down the road when I'm more confident.
Started 6-24-2019
Male 48
Baseline 6/2019 - 500/2:26, 2k/10:40, 5k/27:09

Best 8/2019 - 500/2:05

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Ombrax
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Re: Noob errors from a newbie, some tips & encouragement

Post by Ombrax » July 24th, 2019, 10:51 pm

LPF4 wrote:
July 24th, 2019, 9:48 pm
Open to any suggestions and appreciate the help. Since I'm so new to rowing and exercise in general, thought I'd just get some distance under my belt to where I'm not sucking wind or sore. I'm not sore like when you lift weights, but more like when you do yard work or shovel a lot. Just minor soreness everywhere. For the HR I took an actual rate from one of my baselines. It was 170 which is close to what I had in the past of 174. Now I probably should have used a resting HR but I used one from my Fit Bit when I was sleeping, 64. Then put those in on an online calculator. Found a few and they all are about the same, but settled on trying to stay in the 125-130 range. Once warmed up I stay at 130.

Since I'm up to 5500m I'm confident I could begin BPP but was thinking I would just keep going at the 125-130 rate and increase my volume until 10k. I pretty much row every other day and add 500m each time. After two months of this then start BPP.
There's a ton of info out there on training with HR, and I'm no expert, so I'll just say that if you're interested you should do a bit of research, figure out what your UT1, UT2, and AT ranges are, and try some workouts in each range.

Here's some info on the C2 site:

https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/ ... rate-range

And this is a helpful calculator, with useful definitions of the various HR ranges

https://www.freespiritsrowing.com/forum ... calculator

Good Luck

LPF4
Paddler
Posts: 13
Joined: June 23rd, 2019, 11:56 pm

Re: Noob errors from a newbie, some tips & encouragement

Post by LPF4 » July 26th, 2019, 4:50 pm

Ombrax wrote:
July 24th, 2019, 10:51 pm
There's a ton of info out there on training with HR, and I'm no expert, so I'll just say that if you're interested you should do a bit of research, figure out what your UT1, UT2, and AT ranges are, and try some workouts in each range.

Here's some info on the C2 site:

https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/ ... rate-range

And this is a helpful calculator, with useful definitions of the various HR ranges

https://www.freespiritsrowing.com/forum ... calculator

Thanks I looked everywhere but there. Did 6k today, best I've felt since starting.
Started 6-24-2019
Male 48
Baseline 6/2019 - 500/2:26, 2k/10:40, 5k/27:09

Best 8/2019 - 500/2:05

Ericthepenguin
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Joined: January 4th, 2020, 5:52 pm

Re: Noob errors from a newbie, some tips & encouragement

Post by Ericthepenguin » January 8th, 2020, 5:32 pm

Hi everyone

As the orginal poster for this thread I can report that a few days ago i did suceed in going over an average of 7000 metres per hour during my intervals.. Whilst the resistance was still set at 10 i had a look at how you should row on the Concept machine and this clearly paid divdends! I did reduce the drag factor to c146 today and averaged about 6900, felt ok, although from the previous posts some will say that's still too high.

Quite frustrating that I cannot drive with my legs as strongly as others, (due to my arthritis i have a weaker right leg). Exercises such as squats and even leg raises on a machine cause the joint to complain. i hear the occasional crack coming from the knee when i do these exercises so, whilst i am no expert, i think I'm not doing myself any favours.

Anyway I will keep playing around with the DF to see how I progress. I have to say though that 60 minute rows are not for me, maybe I can manage 45, any more than that I will just get bored, (I also like working out on the weight machines which takes some of my gym time up).

Many thanks for the replies :D

Eric.

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