Newbie - How do I find my stroke length?

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
Numbnuts
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Newbie - How do I find my stroke length?

Post by Numbnuts » May 8th, 2019, 6:28 pm

Newbie here, used the C2's for years on and off as a warm up in the gym when I used to lift.

Got into running a few years back and gave the weights game away.

A few niggles with the running is keeping me from getting the weekly k's in just now so I bought a C2 to keep the endurance work up through winter and as a break from the stationary bike and treadmill.

I'm curious how do you find your stroke length?

I've been uploading my rows via ergdata app to the online logbook but can't see anywhere on there that shows the stroke length?

My numbers seem OK for a newbie and I'm reasonably confident my form isn't a million miles away from where it should be, but I do feel like the catch is too close to me if that makes sense, but to get a deeper catch I feel I'm going too far forward on the rails and leaning too far toward the fan. At 6'1 I'm curious to know what my stroke length "should" be and how I find it what it actually is?

Cheers.

Dangerscouse
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Re: Newbie - How do I find my stroke length?

Post by Dangerscouse » May 9th, 2019, 12:55 am

If you are using ergdata, you need to swipe left to the other page and it will show stroke length and some other data too.

I usually have a length of 1:42-45 for r18-r22 and it drops to 1:39 for r24 and higher, but I know quite a lot of people have 1:50 and above so there's no 'one stroke length fits all'. Any less than 1:35 is probably too short if you're 6'1"
45 HWT; 6' 4"; Liverpool 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:27; 6k= 21:23; 10k= 36:21 30mins= 8,356m 60mins= 16,317m HM= 1:18:40; FM= 2:49:39; 50k= 3:28:18; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you Row"

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PhilS1961
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Re: Newbie - How do I find my stroke length?

Post by PhilS1961 » May 9th, 2019, 2:35 am

Dangerscouse wrote:
May 9th, 2019, 12:55 am
If you are using ergdata, you need to swipe left to the other page and it will show stroke length and some other data too.

I usually have a length of 1:42-45 for r18-r22 and it drops to 1:39 for r24 and higher, but I know quite a lot of people have 1:50 and above so there's no 'one stroke length fits all'. Any less than 1:35 is probably too short if you're 6'1"
This is interesting. I'm 6'2" with long legs and a reasonable wingspan and I'm overjoyed if I see over 135 on ergdata. I'm 57 so that may have something to do with it.
57 years old
6'2 (188)
211 lbs (96kg)
Wingspan 194 cm
Been erging since Jan 2019.
1k=3:32.3
2k=7:19.3 (April 16 2019)
30:00 = 7638 (March 15 2019)

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hjs
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Re: Newbie - How do I find my stroke length?

Post by hjs » May 9th, 2019, 3:28 am

PhilS1961 wrote:
May 9th, 2019, 2:35 am
Dangerscouse wrote:
May 9th, 2019, 12:55 am
If you are using ergdata, you need to swipe left to the other page and it will show stroke length and some other data too.

I usually have a length of 1:42-45 for r18-r22 and it drops to 1:39 for r24 and higher, but I know quite a lot of people have 1:50 and above so there's no 'one stroke length fits all'. Any less than 1:35 is probably too short if you're 6'1"
This is interesting. I'm 6'2" with long legs and a reasonable wingspan and I'm overjoyed if I see over 135 on ergdata. I'm 57 so that may have something to do with it.
Could say something about your rocking over, or lack there off. I am 6.1 wingspan 193 and get 1.45/48m also gets shorter a bit when I rate up. Big guys not seldom get 160 plus.
For my training see twitter @Hjsrowing

Dangerscouse
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Re: Newbie - How do I find my stroke length?

Post by Dangerscouse » May 9th, 2019, 3:55 am

Try and think about leaning back a bit more at the end of the drive and possibly compressing more at the catch. It's a common error to clip the drive phase and rush to the next stroke.

Fexibility generally and hip mobility are important to allow a better range of motion, so this may be hindering your compression at the catch, but don't compress too much as you will leak some power.

A strong core is also essential to allow a good hip rocking motion. If it's too weak you won't have the confidence to lean back as far as you will fatigue quickly. Lots of plank variations, hip stretches will be useful to add to your routine if you don't do them already.
45 HWT; 6' 4"; Liverpool 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:27; 6k= 21:23; 10k= 36:21 30mins= 8,356m 60mins= 16,317m HM= 1:18:40; FM= 2:49:39; 50k= 3:28:18; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you Row"

Instagram: stuwenman

Dino
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Re: Newbie - How do I find my stroke length?

Post by Dino » May 9th, 2019, 3:59 am

...rather annoyingly ergdata displays more info in real time than ends up in the log; stroke length, drive speed, peak force and average force don't end up being stored, so when you download from the online log as a CSV file for analysis these are missing :(
few extra fields in the database and in ergdata log shouldn't be too much work you would think!!
51 HWT M - age group verified percentiles based on 2019 season, long term target to get above 75% for all (although maybe not the FM!)
500m (63rd), 1k (64th), 2k (73rd), 5k (83rd), 30m (84th), 10k (82nd), 60m (76th), HM (85th), FM (72nd)

jamesg
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Re: Newbie - How do I find my stroke length?

Post by jamesg » May 9th, 2019, 4:03 am

I'm 6'2 (188) and Ergdata shows me 118-121 cm, version downloaded yesterday. PM5 on a C with three sensors in the flywheel. This is about 65% of my height, and corresponds roughly to what I measure with a metric yardstick. It seems to be about 20 cm shorter than the length I saw with an earlier ergdata version, and is closer to reality.

If you pull 65% of your height and say 50% of your ideal BMI weight you'll have no problem keeping fit even at low ratings, seeing 160-180 Watt.
I do feel like the catch is too close to me if that makes sense, but to get a deeper catch I feel I'm going too far forward on the rails and leaning too far toward the fan.
This can cause trouble. It's avoided by using the recovery sequence: first arms away, then swing forward, then slide. NOT all at once. This allows a strong posture for the catch, if you stop the slide well away from your heels with knee angle about 45°. See any video of a sculler taken from amidships.
78y, 188cm, 87kg, last seen MHR 163. 2k (24 May 19) 8.46.6@22

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jackarabit
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Re: Newbie - How do I find my stroke length?

Post by jackarabit » May 9th, 2019, 4:18 am

You can use the “thumbwheel” gadget in ED to move any two of eight parameters to the mainscreen:

Image

Image

May be able to get drive length stroke by stroke from an ED .csv file but would be pretty boring as a list. After a few times testing the effect on drive length of aggressive catch, pulling on the high line to chin, and extreme rockover at finish, it’s pretty much same old roof same old shingle anyway.
There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

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jackarabit
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Re: Newbie - How do I find my stroke length?

Post by jackarabit » May 9th, 2019, 4:54 am

James’ advice re: catch position is spot on. Quick engagement of the flywheel clutch has a very positive effect on DL but straining back and shoulders, knees and ankles to get extra reach toward the chain gate defeats the strong catch position that produces the quick engagement (equivalent of “rowing in” the blades which shortens effective drive length OTW).
There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

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lindsayh
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Re: Newbie - How do I find my stroke length?

Post by lindsayh » May 9th, 2019, 6:44 am

I find DL a difficult metric to get my head around and remain a bit unconvinced about its relevance - it's very variable and I suspect affected by physical traits such as wingspan, our physiology and by technique as well without being a really good predictor of erging success. I'm just on 6' in the old money (182cm here in the "colonies") and have to really reach to get >1.36 and cruise at 127/130 normally. Don't use ED regularly though. It seems to me that there isn't a reliable correlation between DL and performance as measured by pace - it just is what it is. (FWIW at >60y I have had a LP @1:13 and done pretty well mainly in the short stuff)
Lindsay
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PBs (65y+) 1 min 349m, 500m 1:29.8, 1k 3:11.7 2k 6:47.4, 5km 18:07.9, 30' 7928m, 10k 37:57.2, 60' 15368m

Dangerscouse
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Re: Newbie - How do I find my stroke length?

Post by Dangerscouse » May 9th, 2019, 2:28 pm

I tend to agree with Lindsay on this and I wouldn't worry about it too much: if it feels comfortable and you're making progress that is all that really matters.

The more I erg, the more I see that there are metrics / rules that don't always apply and can quite easily be ignored for some people, and Lindsay is a great example of this.
45 HWT; 6' 4"; Liverpool 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:27; 6k= 21:23; 10k= 36:21 30mins= 8,356m 60mins= 16,317m HM= 1:18:40; FM= 2:49:39; 50k= 3:28:18; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you Row"

Instagram: stuwenman

mitchel674
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Re: Newbie - How do I find my stroke length?

Post by mitchel674 » May 9th, 2019, 2:29 pm

I've been looking at my drive length in real time using erg data along with the force curve on the PM for the past 2 months. This combo has really helped me keep my stroke in good form. I still tend to deteriorate when I fatigue or rate up. By watching my drive length I can alert myself when I am getting sloppy. My current ideal drive length seems to be 1.28m.
54yo male, 6ft, 162lbs

PhilS1961
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Re: Newbie - How do I find my stroke length?

Post by PhilS1961 » May 9th, 2019, 4:17 pm

jackarabit wrote:
May 9th, 2019, 4:18 am
You can use the “thumbwheel” gadget in ED to move any two of eight parameters to the mainscreen:

Image

Image

May be able to get drive length stroke by stroke from an ED .csv file but would be pretty boring as a list. After a few times testing the effect on drive length of aggressive catch, pulling on the high line to chin, and extreme rockover at finish, it’s pretty much same old roof same old shingle anyway.
Brilliant! I had no idea! Thanks :D
57 years old
6'2 (188)
211 lbs (96kg)
Wingspan 194 cm
Been erging since Jan 2019.
1k=3:32.3
2k=7:19.3 (April 16 2019)
30:00 = 7638 (March 15 2019)

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jackarabit
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Re: Newbie - How do I find my stroke length?

Post by jackarabit » May 9th, 2019, 8:12 pm

We are here to serve. Pour le sport!
There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

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mdpfirrman
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Re: Newbie - How do I find my stroke length?

Post by mdpfirrman » May 10th, 2019, 11:26 am

mitchel674 wrote:
May 9th, 2019, 2:29 pm
I've been looking at my drive length in real time using erg data along with the force curve on the PM for the past 2 months. This combo has really helped me keep my stroke in good form. I still tend to deteriorate when I fatigue or rate up. By watching my drive length I can alert myself when I am getting sloppy. My current ideal drive length seems to be 1.28m.
I watch both this and my "Drive Time". Drive time is a great thing to watch because it shows you (along with Drive Length) your Velocity. It took me a long time to realize with rowing that the old physics equation works. Power = Velocity X Force. Every new rower remembers the force part but forgets all about Velocity (so does every bulky guy in the gym that sets the Damper to 10!!). Velocity training is getting big in many sports now. There's even a weight lifting device that gauges how fast you move the bar on lifts. When you reach a certain point of decreasing velocity, it tells you to stop lifting that weight and be done with that set. That lifting device (an Italian company) costs like $300 USD. It's fantastic to have access to Velocity information free courtesy of ErgData.

My force is pretty weak right now recovering from the back injury, but I'm able to still concentrate on making the drive snappy by keeping my Drive Time at .7 secs or under (assuming your drive length is relatively constant). Also gives me something to do while my paces are pathetic while I recover.
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Mike Pfirrman
53 Yrs old, 5' 10" / 185 lbs (177cm/84kg)

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