Stroke Rate

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
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gordonc66
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Stroke Rate

Post by gordonc66 » May 22nd, 2019, 9:24 am

Hello,

I've been looking at a no. of workout sessions and notice them suggesting stroke rates often around 24, my stoke rate is way higher, see below, this is steady session and you can see the S/R is around 40 which is typical for all my sessions. Does this point to me doing something fundamentally wrong?

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
30:07.5 6,379m 2:21.6 123 723 37 141
5:00.0 1,009m 2:28.6 107 666 37 121
5:00.0 1,085m 2:18.2 132 755 40 146
5:00.0 1,068m 2:20.4 126 734 40 131
5:00.0 1,112m 2:14.8 143 790 42 159
5:00.0 1,030m 2:25.6 113 690 40 140
5:00.0 1,053m 2:22.4 121 716 43 148
0:07.0 21m 2:46.6 76 560 16 145

if relevant, age 52, height 173cm, and weight 70Kg

Dangerscouse
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Location: Liverpool, England

Re: Stroke Rate

Post by Dangerscouse » May 22nd, 2019, 9:51 am

gordonc66 wrote:
May 22nd, 2019, 9:24 am
Hello,

I've been looking at a no. of workout sessions and notice them suggesting stroke rates often around 24, my stoke rate is way higher, see below, this is steady session and you can see the S/R is around 40 which is typical for all my sessions. Does this point to me doing something fundamentally wrong?

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
30:07.5 6,379m 2:21.6 123 723 37 141
5:00.0 1,009m 2:28.6 107 666 37 121
5:00.0 1,085m 2:18.2 132 755 40 146
5:00.0 1,068m 2:20.4 126 734 40 131
5:00.0 1,112m 2:14.8 143 790 42 159
5:00.0 1,030m 2:25.6 113 690 40 140
5:00.0 1,053m 2:22.4 121 716 43 148
0:07.0 21m 2:46.6 76 560 16 145

if relevant, age 52, height 173cm, and weight 70Kg
It looks to me that you are 'shooting the slide' i.e. you are moving back into the catch far too early before you have finished the drive. This will be evident if you aren't sliding back anymore by the time that you pull with your arms.

Have a search for rowing technique and you'll see where you are going wrong. It has to be legs first (imagine jumping back away from the erg), then engage your upper body / hip thrust, and then arms at the end with an 11 o'clock to 1 o'clock positioning.

What drag factor are you using? If it's too heavy you will compensate by trying to pull faster and not finish the stroke.
45 HWT; 6' 4"; Liverpool 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:27; 6k= 21:23; 10k= 36:21 30mins= 8,356m 60mins= 16,317m HM= 1:18:40; FM= 2:49:39; 50k= 3:28:18; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you Row"

Instagram: stuwenman

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hjs
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Re: Stroke Rate

Post by hjs » May 22nd, 2019, 10:52 am

gordonc66 wrote:
May 22nd, 2019, 9:24 am
Hello,

I've been looking at a no. of workout sessions and notice them suggesting stroke rates often around 24, my stoke rate is way higher, see below, this is steady session and you can see the S/R is around 40 which is typical for all my sessions. Does this point to me doing something fundamentally wrong?

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
30:07.5 6,379m 2:21.6 123 723 37 141
5:00.0 1,009m 2:28.6 107 666 37 121
5:00.0 1,085m 2:18.2 132 755 40 146
5:00.0 1,068m 2:20.4 126 734 40 131
5:00.0 1,112m 2:14.8 143 790 42 159
5:00.0 1,030m 2:25.6 113 690 40 140
5:00.0 1,053m 2:22.4 121 716 43 148
0:07.0 21m 2:46.6 76 560 16 145

if relevant, age 52, height 173cm, and weight 70Kg
If you are rowing and not skiing, you are indeed pulling air. Try to row strapless, that way you can,t pull yourself up and you have to finish the stroke. Be carefull, with you current stroke you can,t do that.
You should be able to go the same pace with half the strokerate.

Ps, kind of funny, don,t think I ever saw this rate pace combination, so you set some kind of record :D

Other way you could try, set the pm on 1 min on, 1 min rest intervals.

First one, row you current pace, rate.

Second one, lower your strokerate with 2 strokes, but keel the same pace.

Keep doing this, until it feels to hard, per interval you will put in more power and lenght per stroke.
For my training see twitter @Hjsrowing

jamesg
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Location: Trentino Italy

Re: Stroke Rate

Post by jamesg » May 22nd, 2019, 11:33 am

There's no need to be in such a hurry when rowing, the boat (and the flywheel at low drag) won't stop. See the videos here:

https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/training/technique-videos

The woman's style is good, not the man's.

To pull fewer strokes we wait a while before pulling the next one: a long fast hard pull using the legs, slow relaxed recovery.

It's not like walking where one step can only be 70-80 cm. Our step (=stroke) on water can be 10 meters if we work hard and then let the boat go.

The power you are developing now (around 130 Watt) will get you fit. However rating 40 is an upper limit; if you want to do more work you will have to put more work into each stroke. You can see the Work in each stroke by dividing Watts/Rating. Seven should be doable at rating 20.
78y, 188cm, 87kg, last seen MHR 163. 2k (24 May 19) 8.46.6@22

mitchel674
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Re: Stroke Rate

Post by mitchel674 » May 22nd, 2019, 2:36 pm

I'm amazed you can pull that stroke rate for 30 minutes! Stu has a good thought about your technique. Obviously something you are doing is weak and ineffectual. I'm a relatively slow rower yet I routinely pull that same distance in 30 minutes at a stroke rate of 20. Yes, half the number of strokes you are pulling.

A video of your stroke would be insightful. Strapless rowing at a slower rate is a good idea. A drill called the Pick drill might be helpful.
54yo male, 6ft, 162lbs

gordonc66
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Joined: August 26th, 2017, 10:58 am

Re: Stroke Rate

Post by gordonc66 » May 22nd, 2019, 3:50 pm

Thanks all for the replies. I'll take on board what you've said and try and sort my technique out

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johnlvs2run
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Re: Stroke Rate

Post by johnlvs2run » May 22nd, 2019, 6:02 pm

gordonc66 wrote:
May 22nd, 2019, 9:24 am
Does this point to me doing something fundamentally wrong?
No, it does not. As long as you're coordinated in your movements, going the same direction with your legs as with your arms and torso, what you are doing is quite fine. In fact I'm impressed that you're rowing so relaxed at 40 spm.

Since you row at 40 spm so easily, which many long time rowers can't do, you must have good endurance compared to your strength. Thus it might be helpful to work on your strength.

If so, I've found sets of 100 meter or 30 second repetitions at 75% of my usual stroke rate (thus 30 spm ) with a metronome to be helpful. Getting stronger will probably help your optimal rating at any given pace to be lower.
73 5'8 155
age 70+ world record pace per weight percentages
skierg: 100m 87.4 / 500m 86.2 / 1k 85.9 / 2k 89.4 / 5k 87.6 / 10k 89.4 / 60' 92.0 / 21k 93.6
my training log

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