Electrical muscle stimulation (EMS), also known as electromyostimulation

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
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greig
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Electrical muscle stimulation (EMS), also known as electromyostimulation

Post by greig » June 4th, 2019, 10:50 am

Has anyone had experience of Indoor Rowing whilst also wearing and EMS belt to further stimulate and work out specific muscle groups.
Eg stimulate Abdominals during an indoor rowing training session.
I have read the an EMS should be could be used 30mins per day for 5 days a week. This would seem to suggest it could work well with a daily 5000m training session.

g.

lindsayh
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Re: Electrical muscle stimulation (EMS), also known as electromyostimulation

Post by lindsayh » June 6th, 2019, 6:17 am

greig wrote:
June 4th, 2019, 10:50 am
Has anyone had experience of Indoor Rowing whilst also wearing and EMS belt to further stimulate and work out specific muscle groups. Eg stimulate Abdominals during an indoor rowing training session.
I have read the an EMS should be could be used 30mins per day for 5 days a week. This would seem to suggest it could work well with a daily 5000m training session.
g.
must say I have never seen anyone talk about it at all around here
Lindsay
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PBs (65y+) 1 min 349m, 500m 1:29.8, 1k 3:11.7 2k 6:47.4, 5km 18:07.9, 30' 7928m, 10k 37:57.2, 60' 15368m

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Gammmmo
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Re: Electrical muscle stimulation (EMS), also known as electromyostimulation

Post by Gammmmo » June 6th, 2019, 7:14 am

greig wrote:
June 4th, 2019, 10:50 am
Has anyone had experience of Indoor Rowing whilst also wearing and EMS belt to further stimulate and work out specific muscle groups.
Eg stimulate Abdominals during an indoor rowing training session.
I have read the an EMS should be could be used 30mins per day for 5 days a week. This would seem to suggest it could work well with a daily 5000m training session.

g.
Sounds like it'd work well :lol:
Paul, 47M, 5'11" 78kg (all PBs done as a LWT tho'), ex bike time trialler.
1min=350m Image
Targets: 1:27(500m), 3:11(1K), 180kg deadlift

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Re: Electrical muscle stimulation (EMS), also known as electromyostimulation

Post by hjs » June 6th, 2019, 8:11 am

Why :roll:

Really don,t get it.
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mitchel674
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Re: Electrical muscle stimulation (EMS), also known as electromyostimulation

Post by mitchel674 » June 6th, 2019, 9:26 am

Gammmmo wrote:
June 6th, 2019, 8:17 am
He's trolling...
Why do you say that? Could be a legitimate question.

My understanding of these devices is that they have never been shown to improve performance or enhance muscular training in athletes or even people with no athletic endeavor. There is some evidence that they may help debilitated patients maintain or improve muscle tone during rehab situations.

Most tout these as a way to get six-pack abs while sitting on the couch. Sorry, but that won't happen.
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Citroen
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Re: Electrical muscle stimulation (EMS), also known as electromyostimulation

Post by Citroen » June 6th, 2019, 2:08 pm

The OP's IP address checks out as being in England (so, most likely, isn't a spamming troll). I've deleted most of the "Is he trolling?" meta discussion. If you've not scared him off I'll leave this thread open for a week.

If he doesn't return I'll lock it at the end of next week.

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Re: Electrical muscle stimulation (EMS), also known as electromyostimulation

Post by greig » June 6th, 2019, 4:07 pm

Thanks. I’m not a troll but appreciate the want to keep any forum clear of them.
This is my first post to the forum. Everyone has a first.
I have had my concept2 model C for a couple of years (bought second hand and fitted a PM5). I use the same user name as on the forum for my logbook. It’s not the most impressive of results.
I have managed a half marathon 21,097m took me nearly 2hrs. Hey not great but I did it.

Unlike any annoying first time poster, I did try and research the forum first to make sure I was not asking something that had been asked before.
I think EMS is a bit of a weird one - the gimmicks sold online/tv are clearly rubbish - but I have seen gyms offering it as a service where they go all in with suit.

Thought I would ask for thoughts on the topic as I have been getting back into erg on a more focused basis.

Cheers all!

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Re: Electrical muscle stimulation (EMS), also known as electromyostimulation

Post by mitchel674 » June 6th, 2019, 4:12 pm

greig wrote:
June 6th, 2019, 4:07 pm
Thanks. I’m not a troll but appreciate the want to keep any forum clear of them.
This is my first post to the forum. Everyone has a first.
I have had my concept2 model C for a couple of years (bought second hand and fitted a PM5). I use the same user name as on the forum for my logbook. It’s not the most impressive of results.
I have managed a half marathon 21,097m took me nearly 2hrs. Hey not great but I did it.

Unlike any annoying first time poster, I did try and research the forum first to make sure I was not asking something that had been asked before.
I think EMS is a bit of a weird one - the gimmicks sold online/tv are clearly rubbish - but I have seen gyms offering it as a service where they go all in with suit.

Thought I would ask for thoughts on the topic as I have been getting back into erg on a more focused basis.

Cheers all!
Glad you're legit!

As I said, most use these units on their abs. Decent rowers have their abs and core engaged while rowing. It's hard to imagine that these devices could possibly add to the muscular contraction already at play during a good erg workout.

Studies have tried to show that EMS after exercise helps recovery, but there is no evidence to support this claim. Again, these have only been found to be of limited use in severely debilitated patients at risk for muscular atrophy.
54yo male, 6ft, 162lbs

max_ratcliffe
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Re: Electrical muscle stimulation (EMS), also known as electromyostimulation

Post by max_ratcliffe » June 6th, 2019, 6:08 pm

FWIW, anecdotal evidence based on a sample of one:

About 15 years ago I had quite a lot of trouble for a few months with my left knee cap. I'd taught myself how to squat, but my form wasn't quite right and I went a bit too heavy too soon. The vastus lateralis developed too quickly relative to the vastus medialis, with the kneecap thereafter not tracking correctly. When it went out of whack, it was excruciating, although luckily it would last for a split second only before it started tracking correctly again.

Anyway, I bought an EMS machine, and used it to try to strengthen the VMO in an isolated fashion. It did seem to work, although perhaps I would have got the same recovery from a stretching protocol and a physio-prescribed strengthening regime.
48yo, 87kg, Pom living in Adelaide. PBs: 2k=7.34.7; 5k=20.40; 10k=42.13; 60min=13983m; HM=1.31.44

Dangerscouse
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Re: Electrical muscle stimulation (EMS), also known as electromyostimulation

Post by Dangerscouse » June 7th, 2019, 1:20 am

greig wrote:
June 6th, 2019, 4:07 pm
Thanks. I’m not a troll but appreciate the want to keep any forum clear of them.
This is my first post to the forum. Everyone has a first.
I have had my concept2 model C for a couple of years (bought second hand and fitted a PM5). I use the same user name as on the forum for my logbook. It’s not the most impressive of results.
I have managed a half marathon 21,097m took me nearly 2hrs. Hey not great but I did it.

Unlike any annoying first time poster, I did try and research the forum first to make sure I was not asking something that had been asked before.
I think EMS is a bit of a weird one - the gimmicks sold online/tv are clearly rubbish - but I have seen gyms offering it as a service where they go all in with suit.

Thought I would ask for thoughts on the topic as I have been getting back into erg on a more focused basis.

Cheers all!
In my experience, my rowing has been greatly enhanced by regular Pilates and core workouts. I'm really not sure about EMS and I have always viewed it with a lot of suspicion. Doing core workouts (lots of plank variations etc), and calisthenics if you don't want to do weights, two to three times a week will be really beneficial.

Best of luck with the training and well done on completing a HM. It's a distance that many people will never consider attempting
45 HWT; 6' 4"; Liverpool 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:27; 6k= 21:23; 10k= 36:21 30mins= 8,356m 60mins= 16,317m HM= 1:18:40; FM= 2:49:39; 50k= 3:28:18; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

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greig
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Re: Electrical muscle stimulation (EMS), also known as electromyostimulation

Post by greig » June 7th, 2019, 7:30 am

thanks all.
my first thought was gimmick. but figured ask those that row. (googling it was way to full of rubbish articles that it hard to believe)

Row hard.
G

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NavigationHazard
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Re: Electrical muscle stimulation (EMS), also known as electromyostimulation

Post by NavigationHazard » June 7th, 2019, 12:15 pm

Not at all gimmick. There's a whole category of adaptive erging called FES (functional electrical stimulation) - assisted rowing. It was developed as an exercise program for those with spinal-cord injuries. See for example https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Ju ... -study.pdf or https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29148129

All adaptive rowers rock. Period. I cannot overstate my admiration for their commitment and courage. And I go out of my way to tell them that at regattas, e.g. Crash-Bs.

As for EMS in rehabilitation, I used it following reconstructive shoulder surgery in 2014. I wouldn't say it was a substitute for other rehabilitative exercises but it was part of my regimen for about six months. And I have recovered enough to have won a British Open age-group gold and placed second in another since then, along with the 2018 World title. Among other things.
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hobbit
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Re: Electrical muscle stimulation (EMS), also known as electromyostimulation

Post by hobbit » June 7th, 2019, 3:11 pm

There are certainly plenty of athletes who take electrostimulation very seriously, both for recovery and improving muscle strength.

The Rolls-Royce of electrostimulators are made by the Swiss company Compex: https://www.compex.com/uk/. To no-one's surprise, they are not cheap.
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2k 8:16 (2018) -- 5k 21:03 (2018) -- 30' 7038m (2018) -- 10k 43:19 (2018) -- 60' 13475m (2019) -- HM 1:34:04 (2019)

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Re: Electrical muscle stimulation (EMS), also known as electromyostimulation

Post by max_ratcliffe » June 7th, 2019, 6:38 pm

NavigationHazard wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 12:15 pm
Not at all gimmick. There's a whole category of adaptive erging called FES (functional electrical stimulation) - assisted rowing. It was developed as an
I recall seeing that in some jurisdictions, sales are restricted to physios and the like. I think it might be the US. They wouldn't bother doing that if EMS machines were just snake oil.

But sometimes they're marketed ridiculously. We've all seen the adverts of people who are carrying too much timber and "in just 3 mins a day" of EMS suddenly shed their bellies and get a six pack, but of course "results may vary".

NavigationHazard wrote:
June 7th, 2019, 12:15 pm

All adaptive rowers rock. Period. I cannot overstate my admiration for their commitment and courage. And I go out of my way to tell them that at regattas, e.g. Crash-Bs.
This:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kxw_Zrv6H9I

I watch some of this series if I'm feeling sorry for myself because I have a niggle or don't feel like training because I'm a bit tired.
48yo, 87kg, Pom living in Adelaide. PBs: 2k=7.34.7; 5k=20.40; 10k=42.13; 60min=13983m; HM=1.31.44

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