Technique Critique

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
Siolag
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Re: Technique Critique

Post by Siolag » June 11th, 2019, 10:10 am

Lots to think about everyone. Have looked at some
Of the videos and will try to take everything on board. I’m very keen to get into this sport in a big way but understand the foundations need to be there.

The big issue I think I have is flexibility. Can a tone recommend a stretching sequence? And is it worth doing some drills before rowing?

Will post further videos if that’s ok!
New aspiring rower, former runner. Looking to get fitter on the erg and improve strength. Current 2K is 8:53.

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hjs
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Re: Technique Critique

Post by hjs » June 11th, 2019, 10:27 am

Siolag wrote:
June 11th, 2019, 10:10 am
Lots to think about everyone. Have looked at some
Of the videos and will try to take everything on board. I’m very keen to get into this sport in a big way but understand the foundations need to be there.

The big issue I think I have is flexibility. Can a tone recommend a stretching sequence? And is it worth doing some drills before rowing?

Will post further videos if that’s ok!
Hamstringstretch and making the hips more loose. But I think its mostly a matter of coordination, nobody can rock over sitting like you do. Sit up straight first and than you can see how limiting your flexibility is.

A good stretch is sitting, legs extended and rotate your hips to the front.
For my training see twitter @Hjsrowing

Ollie Russell
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Re: Technique Critique

Post by Ollie Russell » June 11th, 2019, 10:56 am

Siolag wrote:
June 11th, 2019, 10:10 am
Lots to think about everyone. Have looked at some
Of the videos and will try to take everything on board. I’m very keen to get into this sport in a big way but understand the foundations need to be there.

The big issue I think I have is flexibility. Can a tone recommend a stretching sequence? And is it worth doing some drills before rowing?

Will post further videos if that’s ok!
Drills will help alot with breaking down the stroke so you can really "drill" it into your head, the sequence of techniques that makes up the stroke.

Rowing without arms;
https://youtu.be/YWfO0S61QsY

Warmup/drill;
https://youtu.be/4YsFwlU7LiE

Stretching can be improved relatively quickly, provided its done daily...even twice or more daily. I prefer before and after my workout but will do more if i feel tight later in the day. Rather than list a dozen different stretches with explanations, here is a great video on stretches that is also related to rowing.

https://youtu.be/wI0TiLy5QjU
&
https://youtu.be/c1KZLxIhR_w
Rowing since December 2018
31yrs
6ft 1inch
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2k 6:48:9
10k 38:49
60min 15,324

Goals for 2019: a 6:30 2k, 37:00 10k and would like to try a marathon.

Dangerscouse
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Re: Technique Critique

Post by Dangerscouse » June 11th, 2019, 11:41 am

I'm guessing you may have tight hip flexors, and rowing will only make them worse if you do.

Reverse planks are a great stretch as it opens your chest and when done as a bridge instead of legs out, it will also open up your hips.

Don't underestimate the need for a strong core. I think I now get a lot less injuries as a result of years of Pilates.

For a seemingly simple exercise, it's surprisingly technical and all too easy to get wrong and leak power
45 HWT; 6' 4"; Liverpool 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:27; 6k= 21:23; 10k= 36:21 30mins= 8,356m 60mins= 16,317m HM= 1:18:40; FM= 2:49:39; 50k= 3:28:18; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you Row"

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jackarabit
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Re: Technique Critique

Post by jackarabit » June 11th, 2019, 1:08 pm

Siolag wrote:
June 11th, 2019, 10:06 am
jamesg wrote:
June 11th, 2019, 12:53 am
Current 2K is 8:53.
Not bad, given that style. How long ago, at what rating? Could do better now no doubt.
Rating? Not sure what you mean sorry!

It was last week.
16 strokes for 30” timed or 32 per minute. Basically 1:1 ratio drive to recovery. No rest after the drive! 8:53 2k (9:14 in the signature line when first posted?) is not much return on that aerobic investment. Not atypical of early efforts by many of us but rate should drop, an effective stroke sequence be developed, and increased drive length and longer recovery time mandated and enforced ASAP for optimum performance gains.

Siolag, you go at that 36” video clip like a man possessed! I’m guessing you’re a striver AND an achiever. I think you’re strong enough mentally to get broke and rebuilt and the sooner the better in view of your current technique. Reason I ain’t pulling punches. Arm yourself with the best training advice available (not necessarily mine). Make it happen! :D
Last edited by jackarabit on June 11th, 2019, 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Siolag
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Re: Technique Critique

Post by Siolag » June 11th, 2019, 1:13 pm

jackarabit wrote:
June 11th, 2019, 1:08 pm
[quote=Siolag post_id=472499 time=<a href="tel:1560261981">1560261981</a> user_id=751112]
[quote=jamesg post_id=472476 time=<a href="tel:1560228814">1560228814</a> user_id=202]
Current 2K is 8:53.
Not bad, given that style. How long ago, at what rating? Could do better now no doubt.
Rating? Not sure what you mean sorry!

It was last week.
[/quote]

16 strokes for 30” timed or 32 per minute. Basically 1:1 ratio drive to recovery. No rest after the drive! 8:53 2k (9:14 in the signature line when first posted?) is not much return on that aerobic investment. Not atypical of early efforts by many of us but rate should drop, an effective stroke sequence be developed, and increased drive length and longer recovery time mandated and enforced ASAP for optimum performance.
[/quote]

The stroke rate was 26 when I done the 2k. That video I posted was a session of 15 x 200m and was on the last rep, it was a row series workout and I was really going for the high stroke rate. I’m normally a lot lower.

Just there I tried that warmup that was posted, then 5k. I was consciously trying to keep my form, shoulders between 11 and 13 o’clock, and moving like you have all suggested. At first, it felt very unnatural, but once I got into a groove it felt better. Was also trying to keep the stroke rate under 20. In terms of effort, it felt a lot easier than previous sessions.
New aspiring rower, former runner. Looking to get fitter on the erg and improve strength. Current 2K is 8:53.

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Ombrax
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Re: Technique Critique

Post by Ombrax » June 11th, 2019, 1:42 pm

Siolag wrote:
June 11th, 2019, 1:13 pm
Just there I tried that warmup that was posted, then 5k. I was consciously trying to keep my form, shoulders between 11 and 13 o’clock, and moving like you have all suggested. At first, it felt very unnatural, but once I got into a groove it felt better. Was also trying to keep the stroke rate under 20. In terms of effort, it felt a lot easier than previous sessions.
Sounds like you're making progress - that's good news. Keep at it and it will soon become second nature.

Once you're comfortable with the basic motion you can try rowing strapless for a bit. It will encourage better technique and discourage you from applying too much force on the straps (when you do use them) which is a waste of energy on your part.

Getting the basics right isn't terribly hard, but it does take some effort up front, and will pay dividends in the end.

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jimmyshand
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Re: Technique Critique

Post by jimmyshand » June 11th, 2019, 3:48 pm

My first impression was that it looks like you can improve a lot, but others have already said that so not much to add on that front. What worked for me when I set out was watching myself back in slow motion and so that's what I'd recommend - set the speed on YouTube to 0.25 and it's much easier to break down the stroke and see where you're going wrong.

But you are on a rowing machine working out and that's a very good start. Also good is that you have asked here so you can correct it. It's amazing how hard it can be to figure out what is in theory a simple movement but once you get it you'll be better off in the long run and more likely to go faster and avoid injury.

If I were you I'd forget speed right now and just work on form by doing some more vids of yourself and watching it back and then maybe posting again.

This is a newish vid from Concept2 NZ that might help: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPvYrfyGHi8

I also like this recent one from Concept2 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zWu1yuJ0_g
42 years old - 97kg/214lbs - 198cm/6'6" - I live in England

PBs -
1k 3:15.6 | 2k 6:51.4 | 5k 18:25.2 | 30min 8,016m | 10k 37:53.6 | 60min 15,254m | HM 1:25:38.4

Rowing since March 2017. Real name is Alasdair.

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jackarabit
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Re: Technique Critique

Post by jackarabit » June 11th, 2019, 7:53 pm

Bad assumption by me that 32spm was used for the 2k. At rate 26 and 8:53 2k, stroke power index of 5.7 watt’/stroke. Respectable power output at 6 weeks experience with dodgy technique.
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Siolag
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Re: Technique Critique

Post by Siolag » June 12th, 2019, 11:16 am

In terms of slowing it down, is it optimal to be doing efforts of 30 mins plus? And what’s an ideal stroke rate? 20? I have been using damper setting 1 for my steady/easy efforts.

Is there any place for longer intervals? Ie 500m or 1k? As a former runner I’m well versed in the idea of steady distance forming a lot of training.

My longest ever row has been an hour so I have pretty good endurance.

Many thanks for all of the above. Having read it all and looked at my stroke, it’s now easy to see where I was going wrong.
New aspiring rower, former runner. Looking to get fitter on the erg and improve strength. Current 2K is 8:53.

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hjs
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Re: Technique Critique

Post by hjs » June 12th, 2019, 11:27 am

Siolag wrote:
June 12th, 2019, 11:16 am
In terms of slowing it down, is it optimal to be doing efforts of 30 mins plus? And what’s an ideal stroke rate? 20? I have been using damper setting 1 for my steady/easy efforts.

Is there any place for longer intervals? Ie 500m or 1k? As a former runner I’m well versed in the idea of steady distance forming a lot of training.

My longest ever row has been an hour so I have pretty good endurance.

Many thanks for all of the above. Having read it all and looked at my stroke, it’s now easy to see where I was going wrong.
Re setting, search for drag.

Depending on your goals, there is room and place for everything. But first get your stroke roughly fixed, it is/was no base to work from.
For my training see twitter @Hjsrowing

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