Building endurance base / MHR

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
jamesg
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Re: Building endurance base / MHR

Post by jamesg » July 4th, 2019, 12:47 am

Simplest procedure is to use Watts as continuous control and HR as monitor. We can see both what we're doing and also our reactions.

If HR gets too high, or seems to be increasing too soon, reduce the Watts by 5%. As if we didn't know already.

Watt levels can be set simplest by doing a 500 test, then paddle at 50%; or with a 2k, then use 70%.

Watts can also tell us how good our strokes are: W/rate = work.
78y, 188cm, 87kg, last seen MHR 163. 2k (24 May 19) 8.46.6@22

Allan Olesen
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Re: Building endurance base / MHR

Post by Allan Olesen » July 4th, 2019, 2:15 am

Neorticros wrote:
July 3rd, 2019, 6:31 pm
Let's say a steady hour on the erg is at 2:10 for whoever. When you finish it, do you feel depleted? Would you be able to row for another hour at that pace if you pushed hard?
Yes, that is another good way of knowing if one has hit the right training zone for aerobic base building.

And I might add: After completing a base building session, you should feel that you could do the same session again every day for weeks without getting tired. If you don't have that feeling (or can't do the session day after day), then your intensity is too high for aerobic base building.

Neorticros
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Re: Building endurance base / MHR

Post by Neorticros » July 5th, 2019, 3:37 am

That's a relief Stu, still shocking but good :).
James, I don't have a HR Monitor, just borrowed one of those i-watches to check it out once, so just like Stu says, I have to do it "by feel".
And Allan, rowing the same session day after day is not a problem, doing it at the same time, well that is for sure a problem.

Maybe what I'm asking has no importance, but I'd like to make sure if what I'm doing is best.

Rigtht now I'm out of shape, last Sunday I did a 1hour@2:06 giving it all towards the end.
Splits aprox: 2:03, 2:05,2:06, 2:12, 2:04.

I could row 1 hour for the entire week, or even the entire month. But maybe the following day I would not be able to avg a 2:06. I would get a 2:09+ because I'd be tired or I would just not feel it. Next day I could be +/- 5 secs per split.

If I wanted to make sure I could keep the same pace for the whole month... I'd have to target a 2:10-2:12 every day. If it's one of those days I'm feeling it I'd have to hold myself,if it's a bad day I'll just push to get it.

Now, the "good" way to do it, is: (if there is one good way)
(a) Row at 2:10-2:12 everyday even if there are days you feel as if you could fly and get a 2:03 and need hold yourself back
or
(b) Try to go as fast as you can everyday. Maybe one day you'll go 2:03, another you'll go 2:05 or up to 2:12-2:15 if you have a bad day.

Because I'm kind of a (b) guy. Even within the same session I get a very good 1st split, then slow down a bit, slow a ton towards the mid-finish and try to end up giving it all (just like the example on my Sunday hour). Actually one of the reasons I row without straps is to be forced to slow down at the start :).

Maybe it's not all that important, but probably I should move from (b) to (a)?

Allan Olesen
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Re: Building endurance base / MHR

Post by Allan Olesen » July 5th, 2019, 9:57 am

If you want aerobic base building, you should definitely go for (a).

The higher intensities is something you do for sharpening. They should not be your everyday training.

Higher intensities will not contribute much to your aerobic base. Often, they will even reduce your aerobic base while putting something else on top of it. But the better your aerobic base is, the more you can put on top later in your higher intensity training.

jamesg
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Re: Building endurance base / MHR

Post by jamesg » July 5th, 2019, 10:29 am

Could be you need to work on technique. Once the stroke is itself solid, the level of power at any time is less important, since all work becomes more effective.

Stroke work = watts/rating. You want to see a high number corresponding to a full length stroke, with reasonable and repeatable force.

Style and sequences are critical.
78y, 188cm, 87kg, last seen MHR 163. 2k (24 May 19) 8.46.6@22

jamesg
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Re: Building endurance base / MHR

Post by jamesg » July 5th, 2019, 10:32 am

jamesg wrote:
July 5th, 2019, 10:29 am
Could be you need to work on technique. Once the stroke is itself solid, the level of power at any time is less important, since all work becomes more effective.

Stroke work = watts/rating. You want to see a high number corresponding to a full length stroke, with reasonable and repeatable force. If you don't check this, you can't know what you are doing.

Style and sequences are critical.
78y, 188cm, 87kg, last seen MHR 163. 2k (24 May 19) 8.46.6@22

Dangerscouse
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Re: Building endurance base / MHR

Post by Dangerscouse » July 5th, 2019, 12:33 pm

Don't be seduced by faster times and stick to your target if it's been set based on a plan or something specific.

Chasing PBs is all too easy but you need to pick and chose your moments carefully. I'd opt for (a) and then stay focused on looking for improvements in how it feels and how you're recovering.

Pushing too hard will just limit your ability to recover properly and you don't want an energy debt as it becomes demoralising when your times suffer and you don't have as much energy.

It feels like the wrong option when you're out of shape, but going slower to get faster does work, BUT there is a trade off as you do need to be prepared to occasionally push it hard when you're doing intervals or another tough paced session. Going slow too much of the time will make it harder to ramp up the intensity.
45 HWT; 6' 4"; Liverpool 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:27; 6k= 21:23; 10k= 36:21 30mins= 8,356m 60mins= 16,317m HM= 1:18:40; FM= 2:49:39; 50k= 3:28:18; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you Row"

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Neorticros
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Re: Building endurance base / MHR

Post by Neorticros » July 5th, 2019, 3:47 pm

Ok thanks :). Will follow your advice

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