Noob strength/weakness

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
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kklabunde
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Noob strength/weakness

Post by kklabunde » September 6th, 2020, 8:03 am

I’m about a month into getting erg fit. Based on rankings, it looks like the longer the row, the worse my rank — okay 500m, below average 4min, bottom of 6,000m. Planning to run the C2 weight loss beginner programming for a while and see if that cuts fat AND builds better rankings for longer rows.

500m 1:35.2 199 of 590
1,078m 4:00.0 144 of 225
6,000m 29:00.3 842 of 894
Kenneth
Indiana, USA
Forum Flyer
45yrs HWT M, 6'1"/215lbs: 500m=1:35.2; 4min=1,078m; 5000m=22:20.0; noob, work-in-progress

lindsayh
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Re: Noob strength/weakness

Post by lindsayh » September 6th, 2020, 8:28 am

kklabunde wrote:
September 6th, 2020, 8:03 am
I’m about a month into getting erg fit. Based on rankings, it looks like the longer the row, the worse my rank — okay 500m, below average 4min, bottom of 6,000m. Planning to run the C2 weight loss beginner programming for a while and see if that cuts fat AND builds better rankings for longer rows.
500m 1:35.2 199 of 590
1,078m 4:00.0 144 of 225
6,000m 29:00.3 842 of 894
It means that you are stronger than you are fit Kenneth at the moment and that is not a surprise. Long steady pieces are the answer - keep it slow and don't race it and your goals will be reached - newbie improvement is your friend. Just be patient and make sure your technique is good
Lindsay
69yo 93kg
Sydney Australia
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PBs (65y+) 1 min 349m, 500m 1:29.8, 1k 3:11.7 2k 6:47.4, 5km 18:07.9, 30' 7928m, 10k 37:57.2, 60' 15368m

robbiep
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Re: Noob strength/weakness

Post by robbiep » September 6th, 2020, 8:43 am

Technique, strength, fitness.

Those are the only 3 things that determine your times on the rower for various distances.

If your fitness is poor but you've got decent strength, you'll be able to do shorter distances, but fall apart on the longer rows.

If you've got poor strength but you're fit, then you'll see very little fall away in pace as your rows get longer (your 500m pace won't be that far from your 5k pace)

If you've got poor technique, then it'll all be hard.

kklabunde
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Re: Noob strength/weakness

Post by kklabunde » September 6th, 2020, 9:16 am

robbiep wrote:
September 6th, 2020, 8:43 am
(your 500m pace won't be that far from your 5k pace)
Right now the end of my 500m pace is a near-death experience. To be able to hold anywhere close to that for 5k would be truly amazing! I have a new goal...thanks!
Kenneth
Indiana, USA
Forum Flyer
45yrs HWT M, 6'1"/215lbs: 500m=1:35.2; 4min=1,078m; 5000m=22:20.0; noob, work-in-progress

kklabunde
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Re: Noob strength/weakness

Post by kklabunde » September 6th, 2020, 9:19 am

lindsayh wrote:
September 6th, 2020, 8:28 am
Just be patient and make sure your technique is good
Based on everything I've read and watched, then worked on, I think my technique is likely good. The patience and discipline will be the challenge. Thanks, Lindsay!
Kenneth
Indiana, USA
Forum Flyer
45yrs HWT M, 6'1"/215lbs: 500m=1:35.2; 4min=1,078m; 5000m=22:20.0; noob, work-in-progress

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max_ratcliffe
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Re: Noob strength/weakness

Post by max_ratcliffe » September 6th, 2020, 9:27 am

kklabunde wrote:
September 6th, 2020, 9:16 am
robbiep wrote:
September 6th, 2020, 8:43 am
(your 500m pace won't be that far from your 5k pace)
Right now the end of my 500m pace is a near-death experience. To be able to hold anywhere close to that for 5k would be truly amazing! I have a new goal...thanks!
Welcome Kenneth,

Unfortunately, I don't think Robbie meant that as a goal. It would be truly amazing, but I suspect it would mark you out as world class.

Your 500m is very good, and a 7min 2k could be a target at some point, but for now enjoy your newbie gains. You'll soon see your longer pieces getting quicker.
49yo, 82kg
PBs: 1'=328m; 500m=1:34.0; 1k=3:25:1; 2k=7:16.5; 5k=19:44; 6k=23:24; 30'=7534m; 10k=40.28; 60'=14621m; HM=1:27:46

2020 goals:
1k - sub 3:30; 30' > 7500m; 60' > 14600m; HM sub 1:29.00
2k - sub 7:15; 5k - sub 19:20; 10k - sub 40:00;

Dangerscouse
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Re: Noob strength/weakness

Post by Dangerscouse » September 6th, 2020, 10:33 am

It sounds counter-intuitive but you need to go slower (and longer) to get faster.

Fitness can take a long time to build so don't overthink it, and enjoy the process. For the short term, try and only assess progress occasionally, rather than every day/week.
46 HWT; 6' 4"; 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:24; 6k= 21:09; 10k= 35:46 30mins= 8,428m 60mins= 16,331m HM= 1:18:25; FM= 2:45:49; 50k= 3:21:14; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you row"

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ampire
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Re: Noob strength/weakness

Post by ampire » September 6th, 2020, 11:40 am

kklabunde wrote:
September 6th, 2020, 8:03 am
I’m about a month into getting erg fit. Based on rankings, it looks like the longer the row, the worse my rank — okay 500m, below average 4min, bottom of 6,000m. Planning to run the C2 weight loss beginner programming for a while and see if that cuts fat AND builds better rankings for longer rows.

500m 1:35.2 199 of 590
1,078m 4:00.0 144 of 225
6,000m 29:00.3 842 of 894
At your height and weight, building even a tiny bit of endurance will make you a contender. Do a couple 10KM workouts each week and you will get there.

Try to row low rating (strokes per minute) for the longer endurance workouts, for example, for the 10KM, try rowing at 22 SPM aka R22.
M34|5'8"/173CM|150lb/68KG|LWT|MHR~192BPM|2020: 5K 18:52.9 (@1:53.2/500)|C2-D+Slides+EndureRow Seat

kklabunde
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Re: Noob strength/weakness

Post by kklabunde » September 6th, 2020, 3:59 pm

ampire wrote:
September 6th, 2020, 11:40 am
endurance will make you a contender. Do a couple 10KM workouts each week and you will get there.

Try to row low rating (strokes per minute) for the longer endurance workouts, for example, for the 10KM, try rowing at 22 SPM aka R22.
That’s encouraging. Thanks! I’ll work on a steady R22 for the distance.
Kenneth
Indiana, USA
Forum Flyer
45yrs HWT M, 6'1"/215lbs: 500m=1:35.2; 4min=1,078m; 5000m=22:20.0; noob, work-in-progress

kklabunde
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Re: Noob strength/weakness

Post by kklabunde » September 6th, 2020, 5:03 pm

ampire wrote:
September 6th, 2020, 11:40 am
Try to row low rating (strokes per minute) for the longer endurance workouts, for example, for the 10KM, try rowing at 22 SPM aka R22.
Wanted to try out holding R22, so I just did it over 5k. Took a split or two to dial it in, but it was a great feel -- was able to really focus on my technique, and learned to separate my Watts output from stroke speed. As a bonus, the distraction of keeping the R steady made the time go by much faster!

23:34.0 5000m 124 21
4:41.6 1000m 125 20
4:44.4 2000m 122 21
4:42.4 3000m 124 22
4:42.7 4000m 124 22
4.42.9 5000m 124 22

Thanks for the help!

Image
Last edited by kklabunde on September 6th, 2020, 6:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Kenneth
Indiana, USA
Forum Flyer
45yrs HWT M, 6'1"/215lbs: 500m=1:35.2; 4min=1,078m; 5000m=22:20.0; noob, work-in-progress

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ampire
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Re: Noob strength/weakness

Post by ampire » September 6th, 2020, 5:40 pm

Glad to hear that the lower rating helped, basically you want to develop a strong stroke so that you produce a good amount of force with each stroke. Training distance workouts around 18 to 22 SPM gives you an opportunity to build a strong stroke, improve your rowing form, and increase your efficiency. Then, when you do a time trial or sprint workout/race, you would then have that same powerful stroke, but you would decrease the recovery duration, to row at 32+ strokes per minute. Using ergdata app from concept2, you can show your drive length and your average or your peak force, this can be helpful to monitor while rowing. Additionally, you can set your C2 monitor to display the force curve, ideally you would make a force curve that looks like a parabola.

Dividing your watts by your strokes per minute rating can give you a measure of how powerful your stroke is.

This description for each training band/zone and the accompanying recommended rating (strokes per minute) might be helpful for you, it is from free spirit rowing's HR/training band calculator.

Image

https://www.freespiritsrowing.com/forum ... calculator
Last edited by ampire on September 6th, 2020, 5:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
M34|5'8"/173CM|150lb/68KG|LWT|MHR~192BPM|2020: 5K 18:52.9 (@1:53.2/500)|C2-D+Slides+EndureRow Seat

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Citroen
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Re: Noob strength/weakness

Post by Citroen » September 6th, 2020, 5:40 pm

Stick your photos on https://imgur.com and it gives you the BBCode for direct use on the forum.

kklabunde
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Re: Noob strength/weakness

Post by kklabunde » September 6th, 2020, 6:18 pm

Citroen wrote:
September 6th, 2020, 5:40 pm
Stick your photos on https://imgur.com and it gives you the BBCode for direct use on the forum.
Fixed...thanks. I was wondering how to do that!
Kenneth
Indiana, USA
Forum Flyer
45yrs HWT M, 6'1"/215lbs: 500m=1:35.2; 4min=1,078m; 5000m=22:20.0; noob, work-in-progress

kklabunde
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Re: Noob strength/weakness

Post by kklabunde » September 6th, 2020, 6:22 pm

ampire wrote:
September 6th, 2020, 5:40 pm
This description for each training band/zone and the accompanying recommended rating (strokes per minute) might be helpful for you, it is from free spirit rowing's HR/training band calculator.
Very cool. That's remarkably consistent with what my heart rate monitor was telling me. 22R got me almost exactly to 80% MHR. And I expect I'll be able to pull stronger at that MHR as I get healthier. Nice!

What I didn't know is that if I work harder than this I'll actually leave aerobic. I guess more isn't always better! Seeing the science behind this is incredibly helpful...thank you.
Kenneth
Indiana, USA
Forum Flyer
45yrs HWT M, 6'1"/215lbs: 500m=1:35.2; 4min=1,078m; 5000m=22:20.0; noob, work-in-progress

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