How to spend your limited time wisely?

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
mromero680
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Re: How to spend your limited time wisely?

Post by mromero680 » September 11th, 2020, 9:41 am

I would probably mix it up by doing one long session at a steady rate, one variable stroke rate session, and one interval session. Not sure if that is scientifically correct but long slow sessions are much not much fun for me and time drags. I also like to feel like I'm hitting all the factors that I'll need to get faster and that means getting used to hard efforts and higher spm.
57/5'10"/HWT
500m: 1:36.9/ 2k: 6:59.2 / 5k: 18:53.2 / 30min: 7762 / 10k: 38:57.4 (2020 PBs)

Jerome
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Re: How to spend your limited time wisely?

Post by Jerome » September 12th, 2020, 1:17 am

You missed out: "everything works; some things work better than others; nothing works for ever"

An ordinary plan you adhere to is far, far better than one designed by the best coach in the world that you don't adhere to.
Thanks all!

Excellent observations, by the way.

I also forgot to add the feared feared no-man’s land or black hole, that apparently hovers just above the aerobic zone :D

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max_ratcliffe
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Re: How to spend your limited time wisely?

Post by max_ratcliffe » September 12th, 2020, 2:11 am

If you want to periodise and peak at a particular date when you'll test your 2k, you could build something based on the concept2 Indoor Rowing Training Guide, Version 2.

Image

The figure above shows how to structure the overall plan depending on weeks to go, while the figure below shows how to break down your week.

Image

Not sure that I would ever recommend jumping straight into two TR and one AN session a week without some preparation, and I imagine this should be heavily caveated that it'd maximise TT performance provided you don't get injured.

It's interesting that at 3 sessions a week, no UT2 is recommended at any point in the programme. A maximum of twelve weeks' really hard stuff seems a bit much too (I know I'm starting to flag a bit at the back end of week 4 of 6).

Anyway, it's interesting food for thought.
49yo, 82kg
PBs: 1'=328m; 500m=1:34.0; 1k=3:25:1; 2k=7:16.5; 5k=19:44; 6k=23:24; 30'=7534m; 10k=40.28; 60'=14621m; HM=1:27:46

2020 goals:
1k - sub 3:30; 30' > 7500m; 60' > 14600m; HM sub 1:29.00
2k - sub 7:15; 5k - sub 19:20; 10k - sub 40:00;

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hjs
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Re: How to spend your limited time wisely?

Post by hjs » September 12th, 2020, 4:26 am

What I miss in the three days idea is. What do you wanna train? Thats very relevant. Just general fitness, speed, 2k?
If you “only” do three sessions, make them all count.

For general fitness, go for volume.
For speed, only short and hard.
For 2k, only sessions that directly train 2k speed.

Training for a race. You can’t do that to long. The shortest timeframe could be 6 weeks, the longest 3 months. Beyond that you will overtrain. And if not, you are not trying enough.

Re, races, few people on the forum here have experience with races. So few can help you here. I see lots of ideas which
I would not recommend. Keep it relative simple. No need to overcomplicate things.

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Re: How to spend your limited time wisely?

Post by Jerome » September 12th, 2020, 5:23 am

hjs wrote:
September 12th, 2020, 4:26 am
What I miss in the three days idea is. What do you wanna train? Thats very relevant. Just general fitness, speed, 2k?
If you “only” do three sessions, make them all count.

For general fitness, go for volume.
For speed, only short and hard.
For 2k, only sessions that directly train 2k speed.

Training for a race. You can’t do that to long. The shortest timeframe could be 6 weeks, the longest 3 months. Beyond that you will overtrain. And if not, you are not trying enough.

Re, races, few people on the forum here have experience with races. So few can help you here. I see lots of ideas which
I would not recommend. Keep it relative simple. No need to overcomplicate things.
That’s the essence of the problem, I suppose:

My goal is general fitness, but somehow I’ve come to define this as a Sub7 2K benchmark.

Perhaps those two goals are not directly compatible, at least not in the short term.

Ideally, I would be like to be able to get off the couch, knock back a shot of espresso and set a respectable 2k time, any time of the day. but that’s not really realistic, I know. :D

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Re: How to spend your limited time wisely?

Post by MartinSH4321 » September 12th, 2020, 6:07 am

Jerome wrote:
September 12th, 2020, 5:23 am
hjs wrote:
September 12th, 2020, 4:26 am
What I miss in the three days idea is. What do you wanna train? Thats very relevant. Just general fitness, speed, 2k?
If you “only” do three sessions, make them all count.

For general fitness, go for volume.
For speed, only short and hard.
For 2k, only sessions that directly train 2k speed.

Training for a race. You can’t do that to long. The shortest timeframe could be 6 weeks, the longest 3 months. Beyond that you will overtrain. And if not, you are not trying enough.

Re, races, few people on the forum here have experience with races. So few can help you here. I see lots of ideas which
I would not recommend. Keep it relative simple. No need to overcomplicate things.
That’s the essence of the problem, I suppose:

My goal is general fitness, but somehow I’ve come to define this as a Sub7 2K benchmark.

Perhaps those two goals are not directly compatible, at least not in the short term.

Ideally, I would be like to be able to get off the couch, knock back a shot of espresso and set a respectable 2k time, any time of the day. but that’s not really realistic, I know. :D
This very much depends on what you mean by "respectable time". There are guys here in this forum who can row a sub6:30 whenever they want. If you think of a sub7 time: With a PB around 6:50 you'll always be able to row a sub7 2k unless you're ill or did a TT shortly before.
Martin, 1983, Austria, 186cm / 100Kg
RHR: 43, MHR: 174
LP: 1:06, 100m: 14.0, 1': 387m, 500m: 1:21.4
1k: 3:05 2k: 6:43, 5k: 17:53, 30': 8237m, 30R20: 8088m 10k: 36:51
60': 15779m, HM: 1:21:57
rowing since Jun18, 5mm in Aug20

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hjs
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Re: How to spend your limited time wisely?

Post by hjs » September 12th, 2020, 6:38 am

MartinSH4321 wrote:
September 12th, 2020, 6:07 am

This very much depends on what you mean by "respectable time". There are guys here in this forum who can row a sub6:30 whenever they want. If you think of a sub7 time: With a PB around 6:50 you'll always be able to row a sub7 2k unless you're ill or did a TT shortly before.
Indeed. For me respectable is not an absolute number, but more how much effort you are putting in. For extreme talented people even sub 6 is not that hard. Some pull sub 15 min over 5k

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Re: How to spend your limited time wisely?

Post by Jerome » September 12th, 2020, 10:18 am

hjs wrote:
September 12th, 2020, 4:26 am
What I miss in the three days idea is. What do you wanna train? Thats very relevant. Just general fitness, speed, 2k?
If you “only” do three sessions, make them all count.

For general fitness, go for volume.
For speed, only short and hard.
For 2k, only sessions that directly train 2k speed.

Training for a race. You can’t do that to long. The shortest timeframe could be 6 weeks, the longest 3 months. Beyond that you will overtrain. And if not, you are not trying enough.

Re, races, few people on the forum here have experience with races. So few can help you here. I see lots of ideas which
I would not recommend. Keep it relative simple. No need to overcomplicate things.
What would you recommend for a year-round/continuation approach the building general fitness? Disregarding race specific training for now.

Lots of volume of 2K+18-22@18-22SPM?

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hjs
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Re: How to spend your limited time wisely?

Post by hjs » September 12th, 2020, 10:33 am

Jerome wrote:
September 12th, 2020, 10:18 am
hjs wrote:
September 12th, 2020, 4:26 am
What I miss in the three days idea is. What do you wanna train? Thats very relevant. Just general fitness, speed, 2k?
If you “only” do three sessions, make them all count.

For general fitness, go for volume.
For speed, only short and hard.
For 2k, only sessions that directly train 2k speed.

Training for a race. You can’t do that to long. The shortest timeframe could be 6 weeks, the longest 3 months. Beyond that you will overtrain. And if not, you are not trying enough.

Re, races, few people on the forum here have experience with races. So few can help you here. I see lots of ideas which
I would not recommend. Keep it relative simple. No need to overcomplicate things.
What would you recommend for a year-round/continuation approach the building general fitness? Disregarding race specific training for now.

Lots of volume of 2K+18-22@18-22SPM?
For aerobic fitness yes, but would not call that general fitness. For that speed and strenght should also be included. So intervals, weight in any form. Also don’t forget. Longer aerobic sessions are super boring. Maybe not for everybody, but its not fun. Other stuff is much more varied.

Jerome
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Re: How to spend your limited time wisely?

Post by Jerome » September 12th, 2020, 12:04 pm

Often the Pete plan (or some variation of it) is mentioned as a good balance between steady state, speed and endurance intervals.

At the same time, I read a lot of critique that it’s a race preparation plan, not a sustainable continuation plan.

What makes the difference?

Dangerscouse
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Re: How to spend your limited time wisely?

Post by Dangerscouse » September 12th, 2020, 12:09 pm

Jerome wrote:
September 12th, 2020, 12:04 pm
Often the Pete plan (or some variation of it) is mentioned as a good balance between steady state, speed and endurance intervals.

At the same time, I read a lot of critique that it’s a race preparation plan, not a sustainable continuation plan.

What makes the difference?
A general 'holding plan' will slow down the faster paces, and not keep looking to build weekly. Your ability to recover is generally impaired with too many increasingly difficult sessions, so you tend to pick and choose the right moments when you're not on a defined plan, and have more long steady sessions
46 HWT; 6' 4"; 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:24; 6k= 21:09; 10k= 35:46 30mins= 8,428m 60mins= 16,331m HM= 1:18:25; FM= 2:45:49; 50k= 3:21:14; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you row"

Instagram: stuwenman

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Re: How to spend your limited time wisely?

Post by Jerome » September 13th, 2020, 3:16 am

Is there a minimum effctive dose (time / distance) for SS to take effect?

I’ve been doing a lot of 30r20 over the past 2 or 3 months, which should fall within the SS parameters.

So far not overly impressed with my progress.
Just did a 2K TT: 7.13.0

I used to able to pull under 7.10 quite consistently.

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hjs
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Re: How to spend your limited time wisely?

Post by hjs » September 13th, 2020, 4:39 am

Jerome wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 3:16 am
Is there a minimum effctive dose (time / distance) for SS to take effect?

I’ve been doing a lot of 30r20 over the past 2 or 3 months, which should fall within the SS parameters.

So far not overly impressed with my progress.
Just did a 2K TT: 7.13.0

I used to able to pull under 7.10 quite consistently.
For most doing SS work does not build a peak, so you can’t expect to pull a strong pb on that alone. If you now would do a 6 weeks specific 2k block, you very likely could better your pb.

Pete plan goes faster and faster every round. Depending on how much room you have fitnesswise, you will always hit a wall.
If so, you can do a step back, meaning go slower, and build up again. If you do it that way you could use it “forever”. Pete himself, more or less always trained this way. And he is now in his 40 ies.

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Re: How to spend your limited time wisely?

Post by Jerome » September 13th, 2020, 8:01 am

Thanks for all the advice!

I think I’m going to focus the next 4-6 six weeks on more SS . Slightly longer, 8K, which is about my boredom threshold. With an interval training mixed in every fourth Or fifth session, to get used to higher ratings and race speed.

Then retest to get an indication of my progress and switch to a more 2K specific plan. Thinking about the 2K interactive plan competition phase of a few rotations of the PP.

Makes sense?

Dangerscouse
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Re: How to spend your limited time wisely?

Post by Dangerscouse » September 13th, 2020, 9:35 am

Jerome wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 3:16 am
Is there a minimum effctive dose (time / distance) for SS to take effect?

I’ve been doing a lot of 30r20 over the past 2 or 3 months, which should fall within the SS parameters.

So far not overly impressed with my progress.
Just did a 2K TT: 7.13.0

I used to able to pull under 7.10 quite consistently.
It's difficult to gauge how much is enough, and 30 minutes is at the low end of steady state so your fitness gains will be limited by that, and are you going slow enough for your steady state? You need to remember the mantra "hardly work or work hard". I'd be aiming for a minimum of 45 mins, and preferably 60 mins+ if you want to improve quickly, but there is also the issue of specificity.

If you want a 2k PB, you need to be doing specific training for it, as building your base fitness will help, and is important, but getting adjusted to the harder work is equally as important. Short sharp intervals have to be part of the plan.
46 HWT; 6' 4"; 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:24; 6k= 21:09; 10k= 35:46 30mins= 8,428m 60mins= 16,331m HM= 1:18:25; FM= 2:45:49; 50k= 3:21:14; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you row"

Instagram: stuwenman

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