what if we quit weight lifting and go on with rowing

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
gisborne
Paddler
Posts: 25
Joined: June 28th, 2020, 2:37 pm

Re: what if we quit weight lifting and go on with rowing

Post by gisborne » September 15th, 2020, 12:26 pm

I am skeptical because iirc the "strength training" advice is based on research that simply shows a correlation between loss of muscle mass and mortality at older age. It takes a very minimal amount of physical activity to maintain muscle mass at a healthy level as you age. Someone who gardens and walks every day and hikes or goes on a bike ride once a week is not going to be getting weak and frail.
45 years old, 6'3", 225 lbs.

Marquette U. Rowing Club 1993-4, Anchorage Rowing Club 2018-present.

2k: 7:30.2 (9/1/2020), PB 6:42 (set in 1993)

mitchel674
6k Poster
Posts: 998
Joined: January 20th, 2015, 4:26 pm

Re: what if we quit weight lifting and go on with rowing

Post by mitchel674 » September 15th, 2020, 1:06 pm

gisborne wrote:
September 15th, 2020, 12:26 pm
I am skeptical because iirc the "strength training" advice is based on research that simply shows a correlation between loss of muscle mass and mortality at older age. It takes a very minimal amount of physical activity to maintain muscle mass at a healthy level as you age. Someone who gardens and walks every day and hikes or goes on a bike ride once a week is not going to be getting weak and frail.
Do you have much experience with the elderly?
55yo male, 6ft, 154lbs

MiddleAgeCRISIS
500m Poster
Posts: 53
Joined: May 15th, 2020, 8:20 am

Re: what if we quit weight lifting and go on with rowing

Post by MiddleAgeCRISIS » September 15th, 2020, 5:56 pm

gisborne wrote:
September 14th, 2020, 9:03 pm
mitchel674 wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 7:48 am
lindsayh wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 1:01 am


IMO you should not stop weights ever - muscle mass becomes more important as you age, not less. Strong people with muscles live longer healthier lives so do both. If you are seriously training on the erg for racing then some weight training is useful too - both to complement/strengthen the muscles you use on the erg and to balance the muscles you don't use so much (such as chest and biceps).
This is very true. Sarcopenia (loss of muscle mass) naturally occurs as we age. We must fight this tendency if we want to live longer, healthier and more physically able lives. The only way to fight this is with weight training. Resist the urge to stop. It's also never to early or late in life to start. Three simple compound exercises are all you need: Deadlift, Squats and Bench press. Throw in some pull ups and overhead press if you can (but not necessary).
Any link to research that shows exactly what is required to meet the standard for "weight training"? I'm pretty sure it's not doing 3 sets of 5 squats/press/deadlift and actually getting strong. If it's just aimlessly moving around some dumbells or machines (ie, what 95% of the "weight lifting" population does) then how is that different than erging (or any cardio with reasonable resistance)? I'm pretty sure you're not going to get weak with regular erging...
I think it is possible to become weaker with regular ERGing. I've rowed 3.3m metres now at 20km a day since April. Three things are critical 1) I am doing low intensity. 2) Historically I used to do decent weights ( say 70 kg one hand pick ups) 3) the central governer of my body is reacting to my workload and deciding to throttle my output. I'd say my power is down 20% off the back of a watt bike peak score at 1253 watts ( in a period where i did a few TRX squats) to 1062 watts after 5 months of rowing 20km a day.

I think its essential to maintain some element of power work.

User avatar
hjs
Marathon Poster
Posts: 9345
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 3:18 pm
Location: Amstelveen the netherlands

Re: what if we quit weight lifting and go on with rowing

Post by hjs » September 16th, 2020, 2:56 am

Thread is going from the original start.

The op has trained weight, don’t know how, for years, so he trained in that way. Stop that and ofcourse you will get detrained, lose muscle and lose strenght. Some planes of motion are not done at all while erging. So muscles involved doing those motions need to be worked otherwise. Talking general fitness.

Ofcourse doing a sport, any sport that is, serious will keep you decent fit. Erging in itself, is a very usefull exercise. Uses a big part of your body, gives the heart a good workout. The upperbody pushing muscles don’t do much. If you find those important, work those. If not, forget them, cyclists and runners also do not work those.

lindsayh
Half Marathon Poster
Posts: 3540
Joined: June 23rd, 2013, 3:32 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: what if we quit weight lifting and go on with rowing

Post by lindsayh » September 16th, 2020, 7:40 am

just stumbled over this article showing the value of strength training
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27580152/
Lindsay
69yo 93kg
Sydney Australia
Forum Flyer
PBs (65y+) 1 min 349m, 500m 1:29.8, 1k 3:11.7 2k 6:47.4, 5km 18:07.9, 30' 7928m, 10k 37:57.2, 60' 15368m

mromero680
Paddler
Posts: 34
Joined: April 19th, 2020, 5:40 pm

Re: what if we quit weight lifting and go on with rowing

Post by mromero680 » September 17th, 2020, 5:13 pm

Completely stopping weights would be a mistake but body weight (chins, pushups, pistol squats, etc.) would be enough to stay fairly strong and injury-free I think. I find myself doing more body weight, kettlebells and TRX just because they feel easier on the joints.
57/5'10"/HWT
500m: 1:36.9/ 2k: 6:59.2 / 5k: 18:53.2 / 30min: 7762 / 10k: 38:57.4 (2020 PBs)

mict450
2k Poster
Posts: 278
Joined: December 23rd, 2019, 3:11 pm
Location: the good, ol' U S of A

Re: what if we quit weight lifting and go on with rowing

Post by mict450 » September 18th, 2020, 10:27 am

shevchenko wrote:
September 12th, 2020, 12:44 pm
what if we quit weight lifting and go on with concept 2 rowing and bodyweight exercises like pull ups, push ups. after 40 years old age.

thanks
Your joints will thank you when you're in your 60's!
Eric, YOB:1954
Shasta County, CA, small town USA

gisborne
Paddler
Posts: 25
Joined: June 28th, 2020, 2:37 pm

Re: what if we quit weight lifting and go on with rowing

Post by gisborne » September 28th, 2020, 12:32 pm

lindsayh wrote:
September 16th, 2020, 7:40 am
just stumbled over this article showing the value of strength training
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27580152/
Just from the abstract, it seems to compare women weightlifting vs. women doing...nothing. What needs to be done is compare weightlifting with other forms of exercise. The article you linked seems to simply be saying "weightlifting counts as exercise".
45 years old, 6'3", 225 lbs.

Marquette U. Rowing Club 1993-4, Anchorage Rowing Club 2018-present.

2k: 7:30.2 (9/1/2020), PB 6:42 (set in 1993)

gisborne
Paddler
Posts: 25
Joined: June 28th, 2020, 2:37 pm

Re: what if we quit weight lifting and go on with rowing

Post by gisborne » September 28th, 2020, 12:38 pm

MiddleAgeCRISIS wrote:
September 15th, 2020, 5:56 pm
gisborne wrote:
September 14th, 2020, 9:03 pm
mitchel674 wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 7:48 am


This is very true. Sarcopenia (loss of muscle mass) naturally occurs as we age. We must fight this tendency if we want to live longer, healthier and more physically able lives. The only way to fight this is with weight training. Resist the urge to stop. It's also never to early or late in life to start. Three simple compound exercises are all you need: Deadlift, Squats and Bench press. Throw in some pull ups and overhead press if you can (but not necessary).
Any link to research that shows exactly what is required to meet the standard for "weight training"? I'm pretty sure it's not doing 3 sets of 5 squats/press/deadlift and actually getting strong. If it's just aimlessly moving around some dumbells or machines (ie, what 95% of the "weight lifting" population does) then how is that different than erging (or any cardio with reasonable resistance)? I'm pretty sure you're not going to get weak with regular erging...
I think it is possible to become weaker with regular ERGing. I've rowed 3.3m metres now at 20km a day since April. Three things are critical 1) I am doing low intensity. 2) Historically I used to do decent weights ( say 70 kg one hand pick ups) 3) the central governer of my body is reacting to my workload and deciding to throttle my output. I'd say my power is down 20% off the back of a watt bike peak score at 1253 watts ( in a period where i did a few TRX squats) to 1062 watts after 5 months of rowing 20km a day.

I think its essential to maintain some element of power work.
Yes, you will get weaker. But you won't get weak. A 90-year old who is erging isn't going to be struggling to get out of her chair even if she has never done any weightlifting in her entire life. If you look at a lot of Asian cultures, the exercise they do at old age is nothing like what we think of as exercise when we are in our 20's, 30's, 40's. There is a huge amount of diminishing returns on exercise and going from nothing to a little bit has a far greater impact on mortality and health than going from a little bit to a lot.

I have yet to see any evidence that resistance exercise in the form of weight work has a relative (to other exercise) improvement in quality of life, health, or mortality as one ages. Weight train for performance, aesthetics, or enjoyment but it isn't necessary for long-term health.
45 years old, 6'3", 225 lbs.

Marquette U. Rowing Club 1993-4, Anchorage Rowing Club 2018-present.

2k: 7:30.2 (9/1/2020), PB 6:42 (set in 1993)

lostboy
Paddler
Posts: 10
Joined: September 28th, 2020, 8:07 pm

Re: what if we quit weight lifting and go on with rowing

Post by lostboy » September 29th, 2020, 8:39 pm

You've got to keep pumping iron!! I'm 61 life long muscle head, have trained with a Mr Universe, Jeff King, I still hit the weights, each body part once a week. Work outs are fast and hard during warm weather, slower and heavier during winter. I also row, bike walk, sail competitivley and just have a blast. you can train fast and hard, EMOM, every minute on the minute, crank on that for awhile, wow. IMOP you cannot replace that feeling of power, it will carry you into old age with confidence, row, bike, of course, balance. Honestly, you'll miss the strength, @ 61, one arm db rows 80lb dumbell, barbell curl 120@ 10 reps etc. Don't quit

lostboy
Paddler
Posts: 10
Joined: September 28th, 2020, 8:07 pm

Re: what if we quit weight lifting and go on with rowing

Post by lostboy » September 29th, 2020, 8:47 pm

Sorry forgot to mention, 5' 10" 210lbs, 50" chest, 18" arms, 32" waist, 28" thighs, @ 61years old

User avatar
ampire
2k Poster
Posts: 298
Joined: October 28th, 2017, 7:11 pm

Re: what if we quit weight lifting and go on with rowing

Post by ampire » September 29th, 2020, 11:09 pm

gisborne wrote:
September 28th, 2020, 12:38 pm

I have yet to see any evidence that resistance exercise in the form of weight work has a relative (to other exercise) improvement in quality of life, health, or mortality as one ages. Weight train for performance, aesthetics, or enjoyment but it isn't necessary for long-term health.
As far as quality of life in an aging population, resistance training helps with bone density. Building strength prevents frailty. It also builds confidence.

There is nothing wrong with doing both cardiovascular and resistance training. It should not be an either/or situation. It is often slower to make progress with weight training if you are training your cardiovascular/aerobic system with a good amount of volume, but that definitely does not mean one should abandon resistance training. Nor should someone, if they are interested in their health primarily, focus purely on resistance training to the detriment of their cardiovascular system.
M34|5'8"/173CM|150lb/68KG|LWT|MHR~192BPM|2020: 5K 18:52.9 (@1:53.2/500)|C2-D+Slides+EndureRow Seat

User avatar
Xtr3me
Paddler
Posts: 5
Joined: September 30th, 2020, 7:06 am
Location: London, UK
Contact:

Re: what if we quit weight lifting and go on with rowing

Post by Xtr3me » October 1st, 2020, 5:12 am

I'm currently experimenting with this for the next 6 months. With the drag factor a little higher (damper setting 5), that added resistance gives me the feeling of a decent workout, especially after a sprint session. I used to do gym 3x a week, but I'd like to see how just rowing solely compares, and whether it leads to new PBs or not over the next 6 months.

lindsayh
Half Marathon Poster
Posts: 3540
Joined: June 23rd, 2013, 3:32 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: what if we quit weight lifting and go on with rowing

Post by lindsayh » October 1st, 2020, 7:49 am

Xtr3me wrote:
October 1st, 2020, 5:12 am
I'm currently experimenting with this for the next 6 months. With the drag factor a little higher (damper setting 5), that added resistance gives me the feeling of a decent workout, especially after a sprint session. I used to do gym 3x a week, but I'd like to see how just rowing solely compares, and whether it leads to new PBs or not over the next 6 months.v
It is way better to talk in terms of drag factor and not damper setting which can vary from one machine to another - DF is the descriptor we use around here
Lindsay
69yo 93kg
Sydney Australia
Forum Flyer
PBs (65y+) 1 min 349m, 500m 1:29.8, 1k 3:11.7 2k 6:47.4, 5km 18:07.9, 30' 7928m, 10k 37:57.2, 60' 15368m

User avatar
Xtr3me
Paddler
Posts: 5
Joined: September 30th, 2020, 7:06 am
Location: London, UK
Contact:

Re: what if we quit weight lifting and go on with rowing

Post by Xtr3me » October 2nd, 2020, 4:31 am

lindsayh wrote:
October 1st, 2020, 7:49 am
Xtr3me wrote:
October 1st, 2020, 5:12 am
I'm currently experimenting with this for the next 6 months. With the drag factor a little higher (damper setting 5), that added resistance gives me the feeling of a decent workout, especially after a sprint session. I used to do gym 3x a week, but I'd like to see how just rowing solely compares, and whether it leads to new PBs or not over the next 6 months.v
It is way better to talk in terms of drag factor and not damper setting which can vary from one machine to another - DF is the descriptor we use around here
Understood! :D

Post Reply