Concept2 Model D Rower -- HR monitoring

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
Allan Olesen
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Re: Concept2 Model D Rower -- HR monitoring

Post by Allan Olesen » September 28th, 2020, 6:04 pm

gisborne wrote:
September 28th, 2020, 12:41 pm
I'm surprised no one (that I saw) mentioned that the damper setting isn't what matters, it's the drag factor.
That is simply because neither damper setting nor drag factor is the issue here.

You can do almost powerless rowing at any drag factor if you don't try to accelerate the flywheel in every stroke. That is the issue here.

My personal theory is that before we start rowing the first time, our brains are wired into bicycling. When we ride a bicycle, we don't accelerate the bicycle (noticeably) with every pedal stroke. We just make the pedal strokes strong enough to maintain our speed.

It is very natural, if one doesn't know better, to try to transfer that to the rower. So instead of doing a forceful acceleration in every stroke, followed by waiting for the wheel to decelerate during the return phase, one just keep tapping the flywheel slightly in every stroke, so it maintains its speed. Result: Almost no power.

Fl_Rower
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Re: Concept2 Model D Rower -- HR monitoring

Post by Fl_Rower » September 29th, 2020, 5:39 am

dmusicant wrote:
September 28th, 2020, 1:45 pm
I determined to make 10:00, however at 8:30 or so I suddenly felt a twinge in my low-middle left back that was ominous. After at most one more stroke I stopped. No sense keeping on, it might get worse. I was at IIRC ~2:41/500m average, and figure averaged 23s/m.

So, I'm wondering. I'm very much a newbie and haven't encountered any information concerning warming up before a timed, etc. session. However, it would seem to be a good idea?

I may try something light today, although it might be a better idea to give it a rest for a day or two. The heat wave reaches its highest intensity today, will likely get up to 88F in the workout room by evening Probably 83 now or almost. I do have a 22" square box fan I can situate to blow right at me. I feel OK, but don't want to tempt fate. My back's been better than it's been in decades, actually, but the pandemic has put an end to my core routine since March due to my gym having to shut down operations, so I figure I'm vulnerable to issues. I should establish a regimen for my home workouts that includes core maintenance.
I am a newbie, thank you for posting this question/ thread- I am learning a lot.
I have found not using straps helpful for (teaching) core to be engaged. If you try this be careful, if you do not engage your core you likely will find yourself landing either on the slide or the floor. For now I am rowing 100% strapless.
Rest is important.
Seems warmup is important- I question if that is attainable by rowing slowly (paddling?) - if not maybe some gentle off rower stretching/squats/burpee type things might help.. I don’t do any warmup myself.

mict450
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Re: Concept2 Model D Rower -- HR monitoring

Post by mict450 » October 4th, 2020, 12:15 am

For a UT2 session, incorporate a warm up in the first few minutes by doing the pick drill, followed by full strokes. 3 to 5 mins should leave you loose & ready for action.
Eric, YOB:1954
Shasta County, CA, small town USA

dmusicant
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Re: Concept2 Model D Rower -- HR monitoring

Post by dmusicant » October 10th, 2020, 7:18 pm

mitchel674 wrote:
September 25th, 2020, 9:07 pm
dmusicant wrote:
September 25th, 2020, 8:59 pm
mitchel674 wrote:
September 25th, 2020, 6:24 pm
I wouldn't be surprised if in your effort to protect your shoulder you wind up shooting the slide. This would lead to a very weak and ineffective drive. You need to "hang" onto the bar as you start your drive. Shoulders, arms and hands relaxed with your core engaged while you start your drive with your legs. You should feel this in your lats and not your shoulders.

A video would help or your could look at your force curve to figure this out.
I watched a few videos this afternoon because I had no idea what you meant by "shooting the slide." Got a good idea.

Well, I just made good on my intention to do this this afternoon:

Watch: Using low Damper setting to improve leg drive and timing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiQ0Mqlk_Lo&t=4s

Then take his advice. I did the 10 minute set of sets, 25-30 s/min, 1 minute followed by 1/2 minute paddling (I don't know what "paddling" is, but figured it was kind of coasting, mini-strokes with no power), next 1 minute set being 5 seconds faster/500m than the last, 1/2 minute paddling, etc. up to 10 minutes.

My first minute was at about 3:10/500m, last at 2:40/500m IIRC. Went really well, although had pants on and the room was at 78F. 10 minutes is nothing, so to speak. I was trying to get what he talked about, the legs propelling each stroke very early on. I'm sure my form leaves much to be desired. I'm going to keep working at it. This is intriguing. I just had no idea about this stuff before 3 days ago!
2:40 is a huge increase in power for you. You're learning a lot about the force of the drive. Now aim to hit that at 22spm.
I haven't been rowing particularly but did twice this week. A couple days ago did a 10 minute row in the morning, an hour before my daily 5.5 mile quad skate with HR monitor on. It was under 2:50/500m and about 22s/m. The 10 minute row I just did was because it's very cloudy today and extra dangerous to skate the streets, so I didn't skate. The skates take me average about 38.5 minutes, so the 10:00 row is relatively trivial, still it seemed a definite challenge. Today's row:

10 minutes
1892 meters
2:39.8 IIRC ave/500m
pace: 22.5s/min.

That's with practically no practice, but I did learn from the videos a lot a few weeks ago when I started this thread. I'm sure my form can improve but I don't think it's horrid. I also need to use different shoes next time. I was pleased with today's row. But I know I can't keep that up for 30 minutes. The rainy weather will come, so I'm going to persist more and more with the rower. So far, other than the twinge I felt in middle lower left back around 10 days ago, that went away overnight, physically seems that I'm OK on the rower (knock on wood).

mitchel674
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Re: Concept2 Model D Rower -- HR monitoring

Post by mitchel674 » October 11th, 2020, 7:46 am

dmusicant wrote:
October 10th, 2020, 7:18 pm
mitchel674 wrote:
September 25th, 2020, 9:07 pm
dmusicant wrote:
September 25th, 2020, 8:59 pm


I watched a few videos this afternoon because I had no idea what you meant by "shooting the slide." Got a good idea.

Well, I just made good on my intention to do this this afternoon:

Watch: Using low Damper setting to improve leg drive and timing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiQ0Mqlk_Lo&t=4s

Then take his advice. I did the 10 minute set of sets, 25-30 s/min, 1 minute followed by 1/2 minute paddling (I don't know what "paddling" is, but figured it was kind of coasting, mini-strokes with no power), next 1 minute set being 5 seconds faster/500m than the last, 1/2 minute paddling, etc. up to 10 minutes.

My first minute was at about 3:10/500m, last at 2:40/500m IIRC. Went really well, although had pants on and the room was at 78F. 10 minutes is nothing, so to speak. I was trying to get what he talked about, the legs propelling each stroke very early on. I'm sure my form leaves much to be desired. I'm going to keep working at it. This is intriguing. I just had no idea about this stuff before 3 days ago!
2:40 is a huge increase in power for you. You're learning a lot about the force of the drive. Now aim to hit that at 22spm.
I haven't been rowing particularly but did twice this week. A couple days ago did a 10 minute row in the morning, an hour before my daily 5.5 mile quad skate with HR monitor on. It was under 2:50/500m and about 22s/m. The 10 minute row I just did was because it's very cloudy today and extra dangerous to skate the streets, so I didn't skate. The skates take me average about 38.5 minutes, so the 10:00 row is relatively trivial, still it seemed a definite challenge. Today's row:

10 minutes
1892 meters
2:39.8 IIRC ave/500m
pace: 22.5s/min.

That's with practically no practice, but I did learn from the videos a lot a few weeks ago when I started this thread. I'm sure my form can improve but I don't think it's horrid. I also need to use different shoes next time. I was pleased with today's row. But I know I can't keep that up for 30 minutes. The rainy weather will come, so I'm going to persist more and more with the rower. So far, other than the twinge I felt in middle lower left back around 10 days ago, that went away overnight, physically seems that I'm OK on the rower (knock on wood).
Great improvement! Now that you are developing a more powerful stroke at low rate, focus on making your drive strong and quick. This will allow you to rest on the recovery. Think of a 1:2 ratio drive:recovery. I often row with the numbers 1,2, 3 in my head as a rhythm with 1 being the drive and 2,3 being the recover.
55yo male, 6ft, 154lbs

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