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Beginner advice
Posted: February 16th, 2022, 2:43 am
by paddler
Appreciate the guidance in advance, I know there are many newcomers like myself soliciting advice.
I'm 49, and an outrigger canoe paddler from Hawaii. I'm in decent shape, 6'6 215lbs and received a Concept Rower for xmas. It's my first time on an erg and it is an eye opening experience. I'm interested in using the erg to cross train for paddling, since it's more of a leg workout than paddling an OC1.
In the course of my first two weeks of rowing, I tried a 500M, 1000 and 2000 to establish a baseline. My times were: 1:33, 3:27 and 7:10. All near death experiences, ha ha.
I'm wondering if meaningful gains can be made doing one steady state row and one short or medium interval workout from the Pete Plan each week? I'd like to break the 7 minute 2k barrier by my 50th birthday, but I'm sure 10 seconds takes a lot of work to trim down.
Thanks for the feedback!
Re: Beginner advice
Posted: February 16th, 2022, 4:48 am
by max_ratcliffe
paddler wrote: ↑February 16th, 2022, 2:43 am
Appreciate the guidance in advance, I know there are many newcomers like myself soliciting advice.
I'm 49, and an outrigger canoe paddler from Hawaii. I'm in decent shape, 6'6 215lbs and received a Concept Rower for xmas. It's my first time on an erg and it is an eye opening experience. I'm interested in using the erg to cross train for paddling, since it's more of a leg workout than paddling an OC1.
In the course of my first two weeks of rowing, I tried a 500M, 1000 and 2000 to establish a baseline. My times were: 1:33, 3:27 and 7:10. All near death experiences, ha ha.
I'm wondering if meaningful gains can be made doing one steady state row and one short or medium interval workout from the Pete Plan each week? I'd like to break the 7 minute 2k barrier by my 50th birthday, but I'm sure 10 seconds takes a lot of work to trim down.
Thanks for the feedback!
Welcome.
With those attributes I'd expect you to go well better than that once you've got more experience, even on limited work per week.
Unless you have been very fastidious in sorting out your technique, you are almost certainly using too much upper body, noting your paddling background. Get your legs doing the work (the force curve should help here - it should be a left-leaning haystack) and my guess is you'll be talking about going sub-6.50 soon.
Re: Beginner advice
Posted: February 16th, 2022, 5:47 am
by Dangerscouse
paddler wrote: ↑February 16th, 2022, 2:43 am
Appreciate the guidance in advance, I know there are many newcomers like myself soliciting advice.
I'm 49, and an outrigger canoe paddler from Hawaii. I'm in decent shape, 6'6 215lbs and received a Concept Rower for xmas. It's my first time on an erg and it is an eye opening experience. I'm interested in using the erg to cross train for paddling, since it's more of a leg workout than paddling an OC1.
In the course of my first two weeks of rowing, I tried a 500M, 1000 and 2000 to establish a baseline. My times were: 1:33, 3:27 and 7:10. All near death experiences, ha ha.
I'm wondering if meaningful gains can be made doing one steady state row and one short or medium interval workout from the Pete Plan each week? I'd like to break the 7 minute 2k barrier by my 50th birthday, but I'm sure 10 seconds takes a lot of work to trim down.
Thanks for the feedback!
Welcome to the forum. Sub 7 is definitely possible, and in the near future too. As you're new to the erg, as Max mentions you're probably leaking a lot of power which is free speed when you improve your technique. I'm these terms 10 seconds isn't that much, but 10 seconds when you have refined it may well prove to be a lot harder to attain. Given your background this may not happen for longer than a lot of us.
More is definitely better, in terms of training on the erg but you can make notable gains with what you propose, although inevitably it won't be as much as it would be if you doubled the training sessions.
Good luck with it
Re: Beginner advice
Posted: February 16th, 2022, 6:59 am
by jamesg
My times were: 1:33, 3:27 and 7:10. All near death experiences, ha ha.
Not bad for a beginner. Erg and rowing styles are mostly legs, so differ quite considerably from C type paddling.
Once you sort the style, the effects will be a lot worse, which is why rowing training is done at low ratings. A 5k every other day for a month or so will do.
The Watt/Rating ratio can tell you how you're doing, keep it well over 10. But don't use high rating to go fast, no need.
Re: Beginner advice
Posted: February 16th, 2022, 2:20 pm
by paddler
Thanks very much for the great feedback. I am definitely using more upper body pull and need to strengthen and then recruit more leg drive. I'll work on the low and slow 5k's and focus on technique. Thanks again!
Re: Beginner advice
Posted: February 16th, 2022, 3:16 pm
by SAHO
jamesg wrote: ↑February 16th, 2022, 6:59 am
The Watt/Rating ratio can tell you how you're doing, keep it well over 10. But don't use high rating to go fast, no need.
I see this statement quite often in here, but I'm not sure I understand it correctly.
If I'm doing a session with stroke rate 20, does this mean I should keep well above 200w, or else I'm performing really bad? Even for long SS sessions?
Re: Beginner advice
Posted: February 16th, 2022, 3:56 pm
by Dangerscouse
SAHO wrote: ↑February 16th, 2022, 3:16 pm
jamesg wrote: ↑February 16th, 2022, 6:59 am
The Watt/Rating ratio can tell you how you're doing, keep it well over 10. But don't use high rating to go fast, no need.
I see this statement quite often in here, but I'm not sure I understand it correctly.
If I'm doing a session with stroke rate 20, does this mean I should keep well above 200w, or else I'm performing really bad? Even for long SS sessions?
At least imo, no. There's always details that need to be accounted for, and especially your long SS sessions: this is far better to judge it using RPE or HR.
Re: Beginner advice
Posted: February 16th, 2022, 4:29 pm
by SAHO
Reason I'm asking is that I'm a bit more than "details" away from being a watt/rate ratio of well above 10.
Currently doing 15000m steady state 75% MHR at pace 2:35 with 17-18 SR, and if my maths are right that should give a watt/rate ratio of 5.4.
For 5x5min intervals with 2min rest periods, 85-90%MHR (in last interval) I can currently do 2:10 with 24-25 SR, in other words watt/rate ratio of 6,5..
Yes, I'm lightweight and could probably develop both muscle strenght and and aerobic base quite some, but again, watt/rate ratio of 10 is still quite far away!
(Sorry for hijacking the thread...)
Re: Beginner advice
Posted: February 16th, 2022, 5:08 pm
by Dangerscouse
SAHO wrote: ↑February 16th, 2022, 4:29 pm
Reason I'm asking is that I'm a bit more than "details" away from being a watt/rate ratio of well above 10.
Currently doing 15000m steady state 75% MHR at pace 2:35 with 17-18 SR, and if my maths are right that should give a watt/rate ratio of 5.4.
For 5x5min intervals with 2min rest periods, 85-90%MHR (in last interval) I can currently do 2:10 with 24-25 SR, in other words watt/rate ratio of 6,5..
Yes, I'm lightweight and could probably develop both muscle strenght and and aerobic base quite some, but again, watt/rate ratio of 10 is still quite far away!
(Sorry for hijacking the thread...)
Don't worry, as it's more of a guide for when you've really settled into rowing, built strength, and an aerobic base, but even then it's not something to feel like your failing if you don't achieve it.
Personally I've never considered watt/rate ratio, and I'd suggest you're better served by chipping away at your pace and tracking your HR.
How long have you been rowing? Do you do any weight training?
Re: Beginner advice
Posted: February 16th, 2022, 5:42 pm
by SAHO
Got my Erg in March last year, and closing in on the 1 million meter mark now.
Before that I was mainly running.
A bit on and off with the strength training, but for the last few months I’ve been doing 2 weekly sessions of body weight/free weights/resistance bands in addition to 3-4 rowing sessions. Trying to get a good mix of slow SS, tempo and faster intervals.
Re: Beginner advice
Posted: February 17th, 2022, 6:18 am
by jamesg
If I'm doing a session with stroke rate 20, does this mean I should keep well above 200w, or else I'm performing really bad? Even for long SS sessions?
No, the ratio will be in line with your age sex and size. 200W is a level that I could do at rate 20-22, age 62-63, height 188, weight 85kg, in a 5k, so well within range for HWs. Now (81) I stay over 120W at 20.
If you find rowing too easy at low rates, you may need to improve technique, in order to better exploit your capabilities. Low rates tend to require force on the handle and a longish stroke, important parts of training and essential for rowing.
Watts/Rating is Work per stroke, which is length x force. Other indices are meters/stroke and Watt/kg.
Re: Beginner advice
Posted: February 17th, 2022, 7:56 am
by SAHO
Thank you both for sharing your opinions and insights, giving a bit more context and balance to the statement.
Then I can carry on instead of giving up and throw my Erg out the window
Re: Beginner advice
Posted: February 17th, 2022, 10:09 am
by Dangerscouse
SAHO wrote: ↑February 17th, 2022, 7:56 am
Thank you both for sharing your opinions and insights, giving a bit more context and balance to the statement.
Then I can carry on instead of giving up and throw my Erg out the window
Hahahaha, never get downhearted about things like that. You just need to be achieving what you're capable of, not what anyone else thinks you should.
Never forget comparison is the thief of joy
