What Training Have You Done Today?

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
Dangerscouse
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Re: What Training Have You Done Today?

Post by Dangerscouse » November 22nd, 2017, 4:42 am

@ Rob, if I was you I'd do whatever doesn't feel good!!!

I know it sounds counter intuitive but anything that doesn't feel good is what pushes you harder and makes you adapt, otherwise you will just sit in your comfort zone. You will surprise yourself how quickly you will adapt and develop but expect it to hurt and accept that this is inevitable; don't shy away from it, embrace it!

As Einstein said "If you always do what you have always done you will always get what you have always got."

Once you feel good at low and high rating it's all systems go!!
47 HWT; 6' 4"; 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:24; 6k= 20:47; 10k= 35:46 30mins= 8,428m 60mins= 16,461m HM= 1:16.47; FM= 2:44:04; 50k= 3:16:09; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you row"

Instagram: stuwenman

Dangerscouse
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Re: What Training Have You Done Today?

Post by Dangerscouse » November 22nd, 2017, 4:48 am

@ Scott, yeah I also think high 18s is possible. Your progression is very impressive so far.

It will hurt so you need to be prepared for that. Expect the worst and hope for the best!

@ Jack, very good numbers for your age. I hope I'm as good as you at your age
47 HWT; 6' 4"; 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:24; 6k= 20:47; 10k= 35:46 30mins= 8,428m 60mins= 16,461m HM= 1:16.47; FM= 2:44:04; 50k= 3:16:09; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you row"

Instagram: stuwenman

JerekKruger
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Re: What Training Have You Done Today?

Post by JerekKruger » November 22nd, 2017, 8:44 am

Dangerscouse wrote:@ Scott, yeah I also think high 18s is possible. Your progression is very impressive so far.
Agreed on both counts!
Tom | 33 | 6'6" | 93kg

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Scott Lewis
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Re: What Training Have You Done Today?

Post by Scott Lewis » November 22nd, 2017, 11:55 am

JerekKruger wrote:
Dangerscouse wrote:@ Scott, yeah I also think high 18s is possible. Your progression is very impressive so far.
Agreed on both counts!
Thanks both! It is really appreciated. Hopefully so. Sub 19 would be amazing!
Scrawny 192cm ... 2k in 7:17.4

RWAGR
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Re: What Training Have You Done Today?

Post by RWAGR » November 22nd, 2017, 12:01 pm

@ Stu
I know it sounds counter intuitive but anything that doesn't feel good is what pushes you harder and makes you adapt, otherwise you will just sit in your comfort zone. You will surprise yourself how quickly you will adapt and develop but expect it to hurt and accept that this is inevitable; don't shy away from it, embrace it!
Makes sense to me, although I frequently see references on here to SS days being at least in part recovery days or at least not so hard that you are tired for your next interval/ time trial day. I guess it's a case of balancing, right? Push so it's uncomfortable on SS days (i.e. a healthy sweat) but not so much that you're gasping at the end.
Rob, 37, 6'2"/ 187cm , 208 lb/ 94.5 kg
2k: 6.48.4 (2021)
5k: 18.18.0 (2020)
30': 8051 (2020)
10k: 38.04.7 (2020)

JerekKruger
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Re: What Training Have You Done Today?

Post by JerekKruger » November 22nd, 2017, 12:08 pm

RWAGR wrote:Makes sense to me, although I frequently see references on here to SS days being at least in part recovery days or at least not so hard that you are tired for your next interval/ time trial day. I guess it's a case of balancing, right? Push so it's uncomfortable on SS days (i.e. a healthy sweat) but not so much that you're gasping at the end.
I asked my technique coach about this. I explained that when I do true UT2 based on heart rate it feels like I'm hardly working. His response was that (a) he always hated UT2 when he was forced to do it and (b) for someone who isn't training at top level (say good US college rower or above) it's not worth doing loads of UT2. Do it when you really need a recovery session, but otherwise up the intensity of your steady state to UT1.

What I'd add to that is it probably depends on what your training looks like. If you're doing something like the Pete Plan, where you're really pushing it hard one days 1, 3 and 5, then by all means take it easier on the SS days, but if you're in a base building phase, with the majority of your training being long steady state sessions then upping the intensity a bit is no bad thing.
Tom | 33 | 6'6" | 93kg

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lwtguy
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Re: What Training Have You Done Today?

Post by lwtguy » November 22nd, 2017, 12:39 pm

JerekKruger wrote:
RWAGR wrote:Makes sense to me, although I frequently see references on here to SS days being at least in part recovery days or at least not so hard that you are tired for your next interval/ time trial day. I guess it's a case of balancing, right? Push so it's uncomfortable on SS days (i.e. a healthy sweat) but not so much that you're gasping at the end.
I asked my technique coach about this. I explained that when I do true UT2 based on heart rate it feels like I'm hardly working. His response was that (a) he always hated UT2 when he was forced to do it and (b) for someone who isn't training at top level (say good US college rower or above) it's not worth doing loads of UT2. Do it when you really need a recovery session, but otherwise up the intensity of your steady state to UT1.

What I'd add to that is it probably depends on what your training looks like. If you're doing something like the Pete Plan, where you're really pushing it hard one days 1, 3 and 5, then by all means take it easier on the SS days, but if you're in a base building phase, with the majority of your training being long steady state sessions then upping the intensity a bit is no bad thing.
Unless you're training twice a day, loads of UT2 won't really benefit you. If you're doing a standard 5-6 day week, 3 days should be UT1, 1-2 days should be intervals, and 1 day should be UT2.
Bill, 23, 160-165 lbs.
PBs-- 500m 1:28.9-- 1K 3:08.9-- 2K 6:37.7-- 5K 17:27.6
6K 21:11.2-- 30' 8342m-- 10K 35:54-- 60' 16209m

mdpfirrman
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Re: What Training Have You Done Today?

Post by mdpfirrman » November 22nd, 2017, 4:05 pm

I have a love/hate relationship with the rower as of late. I've done more meters than I've ever done in my 3 years of rowing this year (and I'm in that camp that has never done much cardio so I did tons of UT2 type rows this year -- around 60K to 65K a week for the last five months!).

I did 5K yesterday as a W/U, attempted an 8 X 250/2' and only got to 4 (average around 1:41.5). Now, I was foolish and did 50 25kg KB swings, 75 pushups or so and a lot of military presses right before the interval set, but I felt I should have been able to finish. I've been in this funk doubting that I can hold on and not HD on interval work as of late. Probably the result of a loose training program with lots of meters and intervals whenever I feel like it (more or less an 80/20 approach). Now I'm getting to the point where I have to transition to more speed work and I'm a little worried I can still do it. Sounds silly from a guy that did as many as 5 or 6 PP rounds in a row just two years ago (and 3 last year, got sick and then 2 more). Not once have I had an HD on the PP, so maybe I'm worrying over nothing or just overtraining right now or just in my own head.

Then, anyway, I get on the rower today and do 6K X 2/3' around 23 SPM and do a 2:09 and a 2:07 and feel great throughout with very good form throughout. Yesterday, I was feeling like quitting and today I feel really pumped up. My SS work was around 2:11/2:12 just last month, it's increased dramatically with the recent speed work (and I've just begun speed work and only one or two days a week, not the full PP yet) by 3 or 4 seconds per 500.

This is the first time I've done this many meters prepping for the indoor race season. With days like today, I see the progress. Yesterday I didn't and doubted it. I'm sure these are common thoughts for those of you that have trained way longer than I have??

Bill/Tom -- appreciate the UT1/UT2 discussion above.

Scott - good luck on your 5K! Watching your training is helping me too. We have around the same amount of years of rowing experience, just way different in years on this planet! You'll do great!
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Mike Pfirrman
53 Yrs old, 5' 10" / 185 lbs (177cm/84kg)

Scott Lewis
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Re: What Training Have You Done Today?

Post by Scott Lewis » November 22nd, 2017, 5:14 pm

mdpfirrman wrote:Scott - good luck on your 5K! Watching your training is helping me too. We have around the same amount of years of rowing experience, just way different in years on this planet! You'll do great!
Thanks Mike. Glad to be helping, even if only a little! The intervals can only get faster the more you do them. That's not saying do lots at once, maybe just try once or twice a week or even mixed in with SS like say 4' SS 1' all out type thing. I'm sure it'll be fine after a couple of weeks. :D
Scrawny 192cm ... 2k in 7:17.4

Cyclingman1
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Re: What Training Have You Done Today?

Post by Cyclingman1 » November 22nd, 2017, 6:24 pm

Well, Mike, isn't that the theory: slog it out for months at a slow pace and then, bam, introduce fast stuff to maximize one's potential for fast times at shorter distances. The idea being that the slow stuff somehow prepares one for the fast phase. Course, I'm a skeptic about that. If I did mostly 2:11 pace for 5 mo, 60K a week, I doubt if I could do a 1:55 250, let alone a 1:41 250.

A lot goes into rowing fast. The musculature and metabolism are way different. Doing 23 SPM is pretty much an irrelevancy to doing 35 SPM. The fitness achieved at long, slow is not going to be adequate for fast. I'm hardly surprised when fast does not readily come after months of slow. I'm sure there are plenty who have no trouble, at least for a while. Maybe that routine stops working at some point.

It probably takes years to really get a handle on what works. And aging changes the equation. Of course, if one is in a college program, thought is not required. The coach knows all. The rest of us have to figure it out.
JimG, Gainesville, Ga, 74, 76", 195lb. PBs:
66-69: .5,1,2,5,6,10K: 1:30.8 3:14.1 6:40.7 17:34.0 21:18.1 36:21.7 30;60;HM: 8337 16237 1:20:25
70-74: .5,1,2,5,6,10K: 1:33.3 3:19.5 6:58.1 17:55.3 21:32.6 36:41.9 30;60;HM: 8214 15353 1:23:02.5

Dangerscouse
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Re: What Training Have You Done Today?

Post by Dangerscouse » November 23rd, 2017, 4:12 am

@ Mike the mental battle is a real minefield and can drag you down if you let it.

I'm reading a very good book at the moment, "How Bad Do You Want It" by Matt Fitzgerald. Very readable with lots of stories of different athletes and their trials & tribulations and it's got some great insights to mental training e.g. perceived exertion is actually on two levels; how hard it feels and how you feel about how it feels.

I honestly believe if you train your mind there are some significant gains to be made in training and achieving PBs.
47 HWT; 6' 4"; 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:24; 6k= 20:47; 10k= 35:46 30mins= 8,428m 60mins= 16,461m HM= 1:16.47; FM= 2:44:04; 50k= 3:16:09; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you row"

Instagram: stuwenman

OtwSL
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Re: What Training Have You Done Today?

Post by OtwSL » November 23rd, 2017, 4:29 am

New account!

I think Stu is right. Once you get over the mental side it'll all become natural. That's not to say it will be easy but once you get training in the fast stuff then your mind will adjust to it again.
Probably 75kg 6ft 4inches
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30r20: 7765m
Targets for 2018: 100m 16.6, 2k sub 6:45, 5k sub 18:00, 10k sub 37:30, 30' 8100m, 30r20 7900m

lindsayh
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Re: What Training Have You Done Today?

Post by lindsayh » November 23rd, 2017, 5:02 am

Starting a new thing tonite to try to get some power back using an Ed McNeely blog piece:
https://peakcentre.wordpress.com/2009/0 ... rformance/

2k @2:08 and 500 @1:48 then>>>
It calls for a max Watts LP and then short intervals @>90% of that.
Did Max LP test which reached 635w (1:22ish) - was 1:17 a year ago!!
then 8x 20"/1'R reaching 570w each time
Will be interesting to see what happens over the next ten weeks
Amping up the weights as well
Lindsay
69yo 93kg
Sydney Australia
Forum Flyer
PBs (65y+) 1 min 349m, 500m 1:29.8, 1k 3:11.7 2k 6:47.4, 5km 18:07.9, 30' 7928m, 10k 37:57.2, 60' 15368m

JerekKruger
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Re: What Training Have You Done Today?

Post by JerekKruger » November 23rd, 2017, 5:30 am

Dangerscouse wrote:I honestly believe if you train your mind there are some significant gains to be made in training and achieving PBs.
Agreed. I think many PB attempts fail because of the mind rather than the body (my recent 30 minutes for example)
Tom | 33 | 6'6" | 93kg

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AnimalNige
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Re: What Training Have You Done Today?

Post by AnimalNige » November 23rd, 2017, 5:39 am

Wanted to set a 30 minute baseline today. My pacing used to be one of my strong points. What I lack in high end power, could be stealthily gained on the strong men using -ve splits. I screwed this workout up badly. Only just avoided the HD. Steadying back at 1:58 for the 4th split was a struggle. I was overreaching.

1:53.5
1:54.2
1:54.2
1:58.0
1:54.5

After, abs, stretching, bouldering and some foundational ring work to try to get some strength back.
56yo, 6'2" 77.5kg. Cyclist, rock climber and recently, erger.

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