What Training Have You Done Today?

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
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johnlvs2run
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breathing vs venous return

Post by johnlvs2run » September 2nd, 2008, 4:28 pm

It might have been something to do with your breathing.
You were probably breathing better through the latter parts of the 6k.

For example, deeper expiration facilitates venous return, lower heart rate and therefore an increase in cardiac output.

Usually the heart rate varies with every inspiration and expiration, and the time between beats is not constant. I noticed when I first began taking my heart rate in school, that my heart rate would increase with inspiration and lower with expiration, so I would endeavor to inhale and exhale as gently as possible, with emphasis on the exhale. Later I found this was due to the lung volume displacement in the chest. The greater the volume displacement, the more this inhibits the venous return. Conversely, the greater the expiration, the greater the venous return, the lower the heart rate and the greater the cardiac output.

I'm curious how you normally breathe when you row, and how this might have progressed through your time trial.

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Post by Nosmo » September 2nd, 2008, 4:38 pm

My first thought is that the heart rate reading is wrong. Perhaps the chest strap moved and you were not getting every beat or more likely the battery is dieing. Can't really believe that your heart beat would actually be getting lower with splits like.

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Post by Jamie Pfeffer » September 2nd, 2008, 6:44 pm

Thanks, John and Nosmo, for the comments. Nosmo's slice with Occom's Razor may have diced the issue nicely. I haven't ever replaced the chest strap battery. I confess that John's reply went over my head. So I'll have my wife explain it to me tonight. But the part that I did get, that my breathing was the issue, makes sense to me.

Tuesday, 2 September: 2d row:
(a) 18K at 200 DF; Time: 1:07:51.0; Average Pace: 1:53.1 (goal was to negative split the constituent 6Ks); Avg Watts: 242; Avg SPM: 25; End HR: 145

6K Splits:
1. Time: 22:52.8; Avg Pace: 1:54.4; Avg Watts: 233.8; Avg SPM: 24; End HR: 140.
2. 22:40; 1:53.3; 240.4; 25; 140.
3. 22:18.3; 1:51.5; 252.3; 26; 145

(b) 5,704m at 200 DF; 26:14.0; 2:18.0 average (Drills and cool down after 18K: five minute paddle; then 10 minutes of maximum pressure and rating for 25" on, 35" off; then two minutes each of left leg rowing, right leg rowing and then arms only; then paddled for about five more minutes).

Then 4 sets of pull ups and dip-to-leg-raises.
Last edited by Jamie Pfeffer on September 2nd, 2008, 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
37-years old; 6'2"; 165lbs.
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Post by rlk » September 2nd, 2008, 6:49 pm

Did a 10 minute practice row after 10 minute warmup -- next Monday we have a 10 minute rowing challenge. Set my PR at 2843; previous best was 2790, so I shaved 2 seconds pace off. Didn't quite break 7 minutes for the final 2K, though. I don't think I'll have much difficulty winning; last year the #2 did 2623, which these days would be a slow pace for me over 30 minutes. The only other person at our gym who breaks 2:00 for any length of time is sidelined for shoulder rehab.

I seem to have better endurance than power -- I've never pulled anything much faster than 1:28 even momentarily, and never done more than 600 in 2 minutes (1:40 pace). However, my 20 minute best (5503) and 30 minutes (8157) aren't a whole lot slower, and lately I've been consistently pulling 8000+ in 30 minutes. That's only about 10 second spread between 2 minutes and 30! I know that on weights my upper body strength isn't all that high, especially for my size (6'5", 220~225 lb). I basically do it for cardio fitness. A 1:50 pace feels nice and steady, like I'm working at a solid pace but not out of breath, but 1:40 feels very tough, and today I didn't even have a single pull faster than 1:42 (during the last minute or so).

My target for the challenge is 2850+, and my next target for 30 minutes is 8200.

I've been rowing at least off and on for about 12 years, and maybe 5 years ago broke 8K for the first time, and then I kind of took it easy for a while. Last year at about this time I had a really terrible attack of back spasms, and the physical therapist emphasized working on core strength and in general building up strength. Given my rowing results this year (broke all of my old PR's except for 500 and 2K, which I haven't specifically tried), it seems to be helping.
M, 50, 194 cm, 94 kg, | Low pull: 1:26 | 1m: 341 | 500: 1:32.1 | 1000: 3:11.3 | 1500: 4:52.7 | 2K: 6:30.7 | 10m: 2935 | 3K: 10:15.2 | 5K: 17:05.2 | 6K: 20:45.3 | 20m: 5782 | 30m: 8568 | 10K: 35:18.8 | 40m: 11192 | 1h: 16635 | HM: 77:19.7

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johnlvs2run
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Re: breathing vs venous return

Post by johnlvs2run » September 2nd, 2008, 7:42 pm

To clarify, lung volume displacement is the textbook explanation.

My personal feeling at the time of my early experiments and since is that the higher heart rate is due to taking in more oxygen, and the lower rate with exhalation is due to a decrease in oxygen along with an increase in co2. Thus to me the difference in heart rate is primarily an issue of the balance of oxygen and carbon dioxide. As example of this, when I breathe slowly and then gradually blow all the air out of my lungs, my heart rate keeps going down, down, down, for as long as I can keep from taking another inspiration.

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Post by HammerHead Sk8r » September 3rd, 2008, 10:07 am

The 10 week goal of 750,000 meters is on track. I am now in day 3 of the second week and have 116,519 m completed so far. My goal of being at 150,000m by this Friday is well within reach..then it will only be 600,000m to go in 8 weeks.

I know you guys do more than this but being a casual rower up to this point a goal like this for me is real big. I skated(slalom skateboarding) last night (50 cone course with spacing of 6 to 8 feet gates) and I can already tell my fitness level is improving even if it is slight difference at this point. My run times last night were in the mid 18.5 second range and my legs felt great throughout each run with my core feeling more solid than before. Slalom skateboarding also taxes your upper body and I can tell my shouldlers and back felt more in control and stable.

We will see how this experiment works come the first weekend in November when we finish our racing season.
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Post by Nosmo » September 3rd, 2008, 2:11 pm

4K; WU 3x1000m r4'; 3K CD
1:45.7, 1:45.9 & 1:45.7
Intended to do 4x 1000 but knew during the second I didn't have four in me. I planned on starting at 1:46 and hoped to get to 1:45. Doubt I would have gone under 1:47 if I did a fourth.

This is the first non-L4 erg workout since mid July when I did 4x2000 at 1:49.2 ave. Last time I did 4x1000 on the erg was mid May when I averaged 1:46.0. I pretty much stopped all L1 workouts at the end of July to train for the marathon, but I continued with the L2's (mostly 3x2700 and 4x 2000).
Don't know if I'm haven't gotten much fitter since May but that seems a bit unlikely since I've done a lot of on the water rowing, if I was slow because I haven't done any L1's, or if I am still too tired from Sunday's OTW marathon race. Guess I'll find out how much of each in the next couple of weeks when I do some more L1s.

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Post by Jamie Pfeffer » September 3rd, 2008, 7:18 pm

80-minute steady state at 140 DF. Goal was 90-92% of average watts from my half marathon PB. That PB was 76:22.6 (1:48.6 average split, 273 watts). 90% of that converts to 1:52.5; 92% to 1:51.7.

Result: 21,560m (1:51.3 average pace, 254 average watts). Heart rate was around 137 most of the row.
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Post by gregory.cook » September 4th, 2008, 12:24 am

4K warm up

5K @ 24 spm in 17:49.5 (1K splits below)
time -- pace -- spm
3:35.0 -- 1:47.5 -- 24
3:35.4 -- 1:47.7 -- 24
3:34.9 -- 1:47.45 -- 24
3:33.3 -- 1:46.65 -- 24
3:30.8 -- 1:45.4 -- 24

2001 cool down
Age: 50, Weight: 158 lbs, Height: 5' 9"

The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. -- Albert Camus

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Post by Jamie Pfeffer » September 6th, 2008, 10:40 am

Friday, 5 September:

Friday:
Row #1: 8x10 minutes of Xeno's Ladder (row along with the first 10 minutes of his 19-minute pyramid DVD) (4'@22, 3@24, 2@26, 1@28 on), 2’30” rest.
Pieces 1-4, and 8 at DF 140; 5-7 at DF 200.
Work meters: 21,189
Average Pace: 1:53.3
Average Watts: 240.9
Average ending HR: 137

Row#2: 18K at DF 200:
Total: 1:07:47.5
Avg Pace: 1:53
Avg Watts: 242.7
Avg SPM: 24.

6K splits:
1st: 1:54
2d: 1:53.2
3d: 1:51.8
37-years old; 6'2"; 165lbs.
Georgetown, BSFS, 1996
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Post by gregory.cook » September 6th, 2008, 6:00 pm

2001 warm up

4K in 14:30.7

2K @ 24 spm for the CTC. 6:54.9.

4K in 14:26.1

2001 cool down
Age: 50, Weight: 158 lbs, Height: 5' 9"

The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. -- Albert Camus

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Post by ranger » September 8th, 2008, 3:02 am

15K, rowing _very_ well (14 SPI).

If I keep my stroke long, I now go 1:39 @ 24 spm.

Lots of that, lately, working up to 2Kr24 @ 1:39 for the CTC challenge.

1:39 @ 24 spm is 14.6 SPI.

For a lightweight of any age, that is pretty much rowing perfectly (15 SPI).

Happy about that.

14.6 SPI is coming very naturally now.

The best scores by lwts of any age on the September CTC challenge so far are 1:42.2 and 1:42.3 by Lancs and Stu B.

For a lightweight to get to 14.6 SPI in good form, you need about 130 kgs. of peak pressure, achieved quickly (i.e., when you set your heels about 1/5 of the way through the drive), and then a pretty straight line, 45 degree angle descent back to the baseline.

Something like this:

Image

2K @ 1:39 is two seconds under the 55s lwt 2K WR (1:39.5/6:38).

2Kr24 @ 1:39 predicts a 6:16 2K (free rate).

ranger
Rich Cureton M 61 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Post by HammerHead Sk8r » September 8th, 2008, 9:13 am

Personal Milestone achieved this weekend: Purchased my Concept2 Model D in July'06 and have only used it as a suppliment to other training (with a very recent new concentrated focus on rowing as a primary fitness tool)..

1st 1 Million Meters.

yeah...I know...1 million in like 2+ years is nothing really but I thought it was very cool to see my LogCard Summary read 1,000, 331 when I got finished with a 15000+ piece on Saturday.

Beginning of 3rd week of 10 Week goal of 750,000m and I am right on track at 151,000m with a 90000m week planned for this 3rd week.
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johnlvs2run
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Post by johnlvs2run » September 8th, 2008, 11:24 am

Rich,
How did you get such a nice photo?
Are you rowing in the garage now instead of the basement?

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WaHoo!! I'm in 5 Million Meter Club!!

Post by TabbRows » September 8th, 2008, 12:01 pm

Wasn't expecting to get in until a bit later this fall but...
Due mainly to not eing able to get OTW this past week, I cranked out a few 45 minute pieces on my Model B and then wrapped up the 5 million lifetime erg meters on Saturday with a 15 minute warmup, 30 minute steady UT1 type piece (7325m--some residual tireness towrd the end from doing an 11k piece less than 12 hours before) and a 15 minute cool down, which helped me also get in 500K for the year thus far. :)
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