Tell me my 2k target time

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
Post Reply
Jaybo
Paddler
Posts: 3
Joined: June 6th, 2006, 5:12 am

Tell me my 2k target time

Post by Jaybo » June 8th, 2006, 5:25 am

I have been rowing for about three months now and generally I manage three times a week. I have built my own training programmes using basic principles learned from other endurance sports (I have a middle-of-the-pack triathlon background). I am 37 years old, weigh approximately 78kg (at the light end of open weight), am six feet tall and have a good aerobic base.

I have done a couple of 2k tests over the past three months but feel the results showed I was in the early stages of my rowing and therefore can’t be relied on as an accurate base for setting future targets.

What I need from you experienced people is an indication of the pace I should be looking for during a 2k competition in two weeks’ time.

I have logged 8,003 metres in a 30 minute session though that was an “pyramid” session (starting low intensity, building to high intensity and then buttoning off again). Therefore I think I could probably add a bit to that if I did a constant-speed 30 minutes, probably averaging somewhere between 1-51 and 1-52.

I won’t give you a 500 metre best as I am definitely an endurance athlete rather than a strength athlete and therefore my 500 metre time probably wouldn’t be a good gauge.

As well as the 30 minute session, in the last couple of weeks I have done:
• 4 x 1000 metres at 1-42, 1-42, 1-43 and 1-43 (with about 5 minute rests)
• 3 x 2000 metres at 1-48, 1-47 and 1-49 (the last one was supposed to be 1-46 but that was too tough)
• 2 x 3000 metres at 1-48 with about 8 minute rests (negative splitting each row)

I have lined up some short, sharp stuff between now and the test (for example, 6 x 2 minutes at maximum sustainable effort) as well as one more 30 minute session, and a 3 x 1500 metres horror session designed to combine the speed gains with the endurance base. It will either make me faster or kill me.

My question to you is this, what pace should I realistically be aiming for in the test?

I will aim to keep a steady speed during the competition as I row best when in a comfortable rhythm (and don’t really have a “sprint” to rely on at the end). Hence I need to know what to aim for after those first five or six get-you-going pulls.

Or maybe a second question is easier to answer: what would be a key session to be able to predict my target 2k pace with some certainty?

All helpful advice gladly received.

User avatar
Andy Nield
500m Poster
Posts: 74
Joined: March 22nd, 2006, 5:56 am
Location: Banyoles

Post by Andy Nield » June 8th, 2006, 5:55 am

6:54.2

User avatar
hjs
Marathon Poster
Posts: 9632
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 3:18 pm
Location: Amstelveen the netherlands

Post by hjs » June 8th, 2006, 6:07 am

go off at 1.44 and see what you can do in the last 500. last 300 shorten the stroke and up the rate.

Don,t do you intervalls too hard, keep a little reserve.

Chad Williams
2k Poster
Posts: 307
Joined: March 20th, 2006, 4:22 am

Post by Chad Williams » June 8th, 2006, 6:30 am

I would suggest pacing of around 1.43/1.44 mark.

User avatar
PaulS
10k Poster
Posts: 1212
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 12:07 pm
Location: Washington State, USA
Contact:

Post by PaulS » June 8th, 2006, 11:35 am

I see no bad suggestions, though I'm going to be a bit more aggressive based on your estimate of a 1:51-52 8k.

Set targets for the 500m quarters of your 2k like this.

1:44, 1:43, 1:42, 1:41 at any transition point you can make the choice to bump the pace or hold steady. Though rowing a 1:42.5 absolutely steady would target the same end time, since this is your first real 2k the wide range negative split will be very useful in case you just don't get a great chance to warm-up well, and it also helps prevent the tendency to fly off during the "always feels great" first 500m.
Erg on,
Paul Smith
www.ps-sport.net Your source for Useful Rowing Accessories and Training Assistance.
"If you don't want to know the answer, don't ask me the question."

jjpisano
1k Poster
Posts: 172
Joined: March 20th, 2006, 11:12 am
Location: Ligonier PA

Post by jjpisano » June 8th, 2006, 12:45 pm

At the risk of being booed off the forum for being overly simplistic and single minded and for using the same method over and over again, I'll venture a suggested pace as well. Basically, I'm in general agreement with the previous paces suggested.

My method is the following:

I think your 8003 meter effort for 30 minutes is key. That tells me you are capable of a 1:52.5 pace for 30 minutes. As always, I convert everything to watts - that's about a 245w effort. I generally think a well trained person can hold a 75% intensity effort for about 30 minutes. I'm guessing that by your body habitus and your history as an endurance athlete that you are pretty well trained. That means that your 100% effort for a 2k is 245/.75 which equals 327w. That pace will bring you in at around a 6:50 - which translates to a 1:42.5 pace/500m.

Since this is unchartered waters for you, I think it is reasonable as been previously suggested to go out slightly conservatively at a 1:44 pace and at 500m bring it to a 1:43 and at 1000m bring it to 1:42 and with 1500m bring it to 1:41. Of course, this a learning experience and we're not sure where you should be so there is no crime in being even more conservative in the start. You have the rest of your competitive life to really experience the wonder of squeezing out a 100% 2k effort. Why get the complete thrill on your very first effort?
Jim SWCSPI Pisano

User avatar
Francois
1k Poster
Posts: 156
Joined: March 18th, 2006, 12:19 pm
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Post by Francois » June 8th, 2006, 5:52 pm

We are all pretty much in agreement here: 6:50 is a reasonable target. A good predictor of 2K performance, according to Mike Caviston, is the average pace of your 4 x 1000m, which, in your case, is 1:42.5.

The pacing suggested by Paul and jjpisano is a good one for your first 2K. Alternatively, you could also start at 1:44 and increase the pace by one second every 400m instead: 1:44, 1:43, 1:42, 1:41, 1:40, yielding a total time of 6:48, which looks much faster than 6:50! :wink:
49, 5'10.5" (1.79m), 153 lbs (69.5 kg)
1k 3:19.6 | 2k 6:42.8 | 5k 17:33.8 | 10K 36:43.0 | 30' 8,172m | 60' 16,031m

User avatar
starboardstroke
Paddler
Posts: 6
Joined: June 9th, 2006, 1:04 pm
Location: St. Catharines

Post by starboardstroke » June 9th, 2006, 1:15 pm

What do you guys think that my 2km target should be?

I am a Lightweight, 18 years old, 155lbs and 5'11-6'0.

My last 2k 6:41.8 (Feb 2006)
6k 21:23.1 (Jan 2006)

and last november I did a 75 minute erg test and held a 1:52.5 (20 000m), so I know that my cardio strength was strong, plus I've just completed the most intense highschol season of my life, so I feel confident that I can break 6:40. Is that aiming high, or do you think that I should be able to do much lower, and that I'm just being a wimp on my 2k's?

User avatar
PaulS
10k Poster
Posts: 1212
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 12:07 pm
Location: Washington State, USA
Contact:

Post by PaulS » June 9th, 2006, 1:25 pm

starboardstroke wrote:What do you guys think that my 2km target should be?

I am a Lightweight, 18 years old, 155lbs and 5'11-6'0.

My last 2k 6:41.8 (Feb 2006)
6k 21:23.1 (Jan 2006)

and last november I did a 75 minute erg test and held a 1:52.5 (20 000m), so I know that my cardio strength was strong, plus I've just completed the most intense highschol season of my life, so I feel confident that I can break 6:40. Is that aiming high, or do you think that I should be able to do much lower, and that I'm just being a wimp on my 2k's?
The real key is not trying for too large a jump, as the line between making it and failing is quite thin. Plan your race and then race your plan.

If I were planning to go sub 6:40 I'd simply adjust the above plan by the required number of seconds in pace. Each seconds off is 4 seconds overall. 1:41, 1:40, 1:39, 1:38 or if you like to think in the 400m intervals 1:42, 1:41, 1:40, 1:39, 1:38. These plans of course can tighten up with experience and more trials, though you probably can make the big steps for at least a few more trials.
Erg on,
Paul Smith
www.ps-sport.net Your source for Useful Rowing Accessories and Training Assistance.
"If you don't want to know the answer, don't ask me the question."

Jaybo
Paddler
Posts: 3
Joined: June 6th, 2006, 5:12 am

Post by Jaybo » June 11th, 2006, 4:04 am

Thanks for the feedback everyone. The relative consistency in the replies suggests that my previously undeclared ambition of hitting 6-48 (1-42 splits) wasn’t a million miles off the mark.

I had a good confidence booster on Friday when I re-did the 3 x 2000m session that I didn’t complete properly last week. This time I nailed the 1-48, 1-47, 1-46 progression I was aiming for last week to give 2k times of 7-12-0, 7-07-8, and 7-03-8. My logic is that if I can row 1-46 when reasonably tired after 2 x 2k at pretty high intensity (5 minute breaks between) then I have an even shot at 1-42 when fresh.

The last big benchmark session will be 3 x 1500 aiming at 1-43 but accepting 1-44 for the last one. If I can keep these reasonably tidy then I figure that 1-42 for a straight 2k is possible.

As far as the even-split versus negative split stuff goes (and I’ve seen the thousands of pages of data, graphs and opinion on this subject on another thread), I think I’ll use the negative split principles for the 3 x 1500 and see how it feels. My gut still says stick with even splitting as far as possible, but I’m always prepared to take advice from people who know more than I do.

User avatar
hjs
Marathon Poster
Posts: 9632
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 3:18 pm
Location: Amstelveen the netherlands

Post by hjs » June 11th, 2006, 5:44 am

Jaybo wrote:I had a good confidence booster on Friday when I re-did the 3 x 2000m session that I didn’t complete properly last week. This time I nailed the 1-48, 1-47, 1-46 progression I was aiming for last week to give 2k times of 7-12-0, 7-07-8, and 7-03-8. My logic is that if I can row 1-46 when reasonably tired after 2 x 2k at pretty high intensity (5 minute breaks between) then I have an even shot at 1-42 when fresh.
this is sub 1.42 worth. Looking good. :)

Jaybo
Paddler
Posts: 3
Joined: June 6th, 2006, 5:12 am

Post by Jaybo » June 25th, 2006, 8:56 pm

Hi again everyone.

The 2k test that I was aiming for when I started this conversational thread was held at the weekend. Taking the advice of several people here I lined up for a 6-48 time (1-42 splits).
Despite the adrenaline surging through my veins I managed to hold back for the first 500m to go through the split in 1-42-0. I maintained this for the next 500m but the third 500m was hard, hard, hard.

With some help from the guy on the microphone and some voices in the small but supportive crowd I managed to get to 1500m with the average still sitting around 1-42-0 (but flicking up to 1-42-1 occaccionally). The last 500m was daunting and I managed to keep the 1-42-0 average until 250m to go when I slowly upped the pace (which seemed like a bad decision at the time as everything was at red-line by then).

Anyway, the last 10-15 strokes were real life-on-the-line efforts and I managed to shave the total time down to 6-46-6, giving an average of 1-41-7 per 500m. All of which goes to prove that most of the assessments above weren't fare off the mark at all.

Thanks to everyone for their help.
Jeremy

DavidA
10k Poster
Posts: 1145
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 4:35 pm
Location: Amberley Village, OH
Contact:

Post by DavidA » June 26th, 2006, 3:23 pm

Congratulations Jeremy!! :D B)
That is a great time, and you managed to hang on until the end.

David
60 y / 70 kg / 172 cm / 5 kids / 13 grandkids :)
Received my model C erg 18-Dec-1994
my log

User avatar
Francois
1k Poster
Posts: 156
Joined: March 18th, 2006, 12:19 pm
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Post by Francois » June 26th, 2006, 7:00 pm

Good job Jeremy!

Nice pacing too! You were also wise to hold back on the first 500m, otherwise that 3rd 500m would have been even harder (and almost certainly slower).

Francois
49, 5'10.5" (1.79m), 153 lbs (69.5 kg)
1k 3:19.6 | 2k 6:42.8 | 5k 17:33.8 | 10K 36:43.0 | 30' 8,172m | 60' 16,031m

User avatar
Heaviestuser
500m Poster
Posts: 99
Joined: June 29th, 2006, 3:47 am
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Post by Heaviestuser » June 29th, 2006, 3:54 am

@ Jaybo,

Congrat with your 6-46-6 !
As to your question. My answer would have been as follows.
The best predictor is to row a 2k and then check your time.

This will give a good indication of the time you are capable of.

I am also more of e endurance athlete than a strenght athlete.

Greetz,
:P
Heaviestuser
Heaviestuser

Easy does it
---------------
1:43:0 500M
3:39:9 1K
7:40:9 2 K
20:11:2 5 K
25:30:9 6 K
44:04:7 10 K
1:39:3 HM

Lifetime 4,163,758 meters

Post Reply