Concept2 Forum

From this page, http://www.concept2.com/us/training/gettingstarted.asp, I see there's a beginner into to training on an indoor rower. It says:

The Third Row
Introduce longer rowing with stroke rate variation.

Workout

Do four 5 minutes pieces, varying the stroke rate as follows:

20 spm for first 2 minutes
22 spm for next 2 minutes
24 spm for last minute
Then rest by rowing very easily for 2 minutes, before starting the next 5 minute piece.
Your work pace should be faster than your 10 minute pace from last workout.

What does the last paraph mean? I know I'm supposed to do the 2min, 2min and 1min totaling 5min without rest, then rest by rowing 2 more min before continuing to do the 2, 2, 1 again. Do I ever get off the rower for an actual rest within these 28min or is it all straight through with no rest whatsoever? Then it says my "work pace" should be faster than my prev 10min from the past day. How can I make it faster if it tells me I can only go 20spm, 22spm and 24spm anyway?

I'm confused.

It doesn't matter too much if you get off the machine or not. Just keep the break to 2 minutes total. It is generally better to just row very easy during the 2mins, but if you need a break, stop rowing.

Well it depends on what stroke rating you did for your last 10 minute workout. But if it was not too high, doing 3 x 5 minutes is usually faster then 1 x 10 minutes.
Don't worry too much if you can't do the pace. Treat it as a guideline not an absolute.

tallguy wrote: How can I make it faster if it tells me I can only go 20spm, 22spm and 24spm anyway?

I'm confused.

Faster does not refer to the stroke rate. It means pulling harder at those same rates to go at a faster pace at each rate than what you did before. In other words, at any particular rate, the pace for the new workout should be at a lower time per 500m than what it was in the previous workout. If you use the calorie or wattage setting instead of pace, the readings for the new workout should be higher than those for the previous workout.

Bob S.

Also, as a person new to this, harder probably shouldn't mean pulling harder.

A faster rate can be achieved through driving harder and faster with the legs, a fast and solid swing, as well as a strong finish with the arms, and the emphasis should be on good technique, as putting the motions together effectively will improve your performance significantly.

igoeja wrote:Also, as a person new to this, harder probably shouldn't mean pulling harder.

A faster rate can be achieved through driving harder and faster with the legs, a fast and solid swing, as well as a strong finish with the arms, and the emphasis should be on good technique, as putting the motions together effectively will improve your performance significantly.

O.K., you got me. Yes, that was a poor word choice. Semantics, grrrr---. You certainly make a good point — several actually. I might add one thing. To increase the power of the drive while keeping a constant rate, it is necessary to make slight adjustments to the drive/recovery ratio (unless the drive length is also increased). In other words, it takes a bit of concentration to keep it at the desired rate when the power of the drive is increased.

Bob S.

it is necessary to make slight adjustments to the drive/recovery ratio (unless the drive length is also increased)

Explicitly, this might means changing the ratio, which is typically 2:1 (rest:drive), so to drive harder and maintain a stroke rate you might need to increase the recovery time and/or ratio.

Thanks for the great responses!

So when it says to do a certain "spm" for a certain amount of min, then later say that my work pace should be faster then my last 10min pace, would this be appropriate? (i'm VERY new to this)

My last 10min pace was ~24spm.

My pace today should be:
24spm for first 2min
26spm for next 2min
28spm for last min

OR

Should I keep the strokes at what they say: 20, 22 and 24 but make sure i have a lower time per 500m somehow while keeping the above 20, 22 and 24spm?

tallguy wrote:Should I keep the strokes at what they say: 20, 22 and 24 but make sure i have a lower time per 500m somehow while keeping the above 20, 22 and 24spm?

The third workout at http://www.concept2.com/us/training/gettingstarted.asp (changed link - your's has a dangling comma) focuses on keeping the stroke rate steady and letting your pace/500m find it's own level. So the first and last five mins should be the same.

tallguy wrote:Thanks for the great responses!

So when it says to do a certain "spm" for a certain amount of min, then later say that my work pace should be faster then my last 10min pace, would this be appropriate? (i'm VERY new to this)

My last 10min pace was ~24spm.

My pace today should be:
24spm for first 2min
26spm for next 2min
28spm for last min

OR

Should I keep the strokes at what they say: 20, 22 and 24 but make sure i have a lower time per 500m somehow while keeping the above 20, 22 and 24spm?

If by "work pace" the directions mean "pace," then the rate should be kept the same. Most ergers use the term pace to refer to the time for 500m and I assume that "work pace" refers to the same thing. In other words, do the same old 20, 22, and 24spm rates, but do them faster, i.e. at a faster (lower) pace. For example, if your paces were 2:15, 2:06, and 2:00 on the first workout, do the next workout at 2:12, 2:04, and 1:59. That is what faster means. I doubt very much that the directions would call for faster (higher) rates, especially when they specifically use the term pace. I am not sure why it is modified by calling it a work pace.

Bob S.

tallguy wrote:
My last 10min pace was ~24spm.

Whoa!! I just reread your message and realized that I had missed this on the first time through. In the immortal words, "They ain't no such thing." Your rate was 24spm. You did not say what your paces (in minutes and seconds) were.

There is one thing that I do find to be unclear in those directions.

Your work pace should be faster than your 10 minute pace from last workout.

I don't know for sure what is meant by the 10 minute pace, since it most likely varies during the 10 minutes, especially since the rate is increasing, so I assume that it is referring to the average pace over the whole 10 minutes of the earlier workout and that work pace refers to the average pace over the course of the new workout.

Bob S.

Thanks guys. The instructions were a little confusing for a newbie. I'll take a look at my wattage next time and the 500m to see what the results are, because it felt like I was going dead slow at 20 and 22spm. Keep in mind, I'm a big guy too. Every other day that I'm not going to row, I'm weight lifting. I'm 6'7" and 235lbs. I had the drag on 4 i think.

I will probably go back and do the "second row" again so I can get an accurate result of the "10min" row.

tallguy wrote:Thanks guys. The instructions were a little confusing for a newbie. I'll take a look at my wattage next time and the 500m to see what the results are, because it felt like I was going dead slow at 20 and 22spm. Keep in mind, I'm a big guy too. Every other day that I'm not going to row, I'm weight lifting. I'm 6'7" and 235lbs. I had the drag on 4 i think.

I will probably go back and do the "second row" again so I can get an accurate result of the "10min" row.

Why wattage? Not that there is anything wrong with using wattage. It is just that most of the forum members use pace and find it more meaningful if some one reports pace. Calories could also be used. Personally, I don't like the use of calories, since there are some hokey assumptions made in the calorie calculation, but there is certainly no problem in using calories for comparing one workout with another.

Pace is rather arbitrary as well, since the erg doesn't really go anywhere and the pace derivation is based what a particular boat (a 4, but I don't remember if it is +, -, or x) would be doing if the equivalent amount of power were applied.

The original name of the C2 Indoor Rower was the C2 rowing ergometer. It was an appropriate name, since the monitors were designed to measure the work being done and an erg is a measure of work. Since the monitors also measure time and a watt is a measure of work divided by time, the watt is the really logical unit of power to use. However, since the directions that you are following refer to pace, I would think that you would be sticking with that.

Why do you regard 20 and 22spm as slow? If you think of erging as being similar to rowing a boat, then think of driving the boat as hard as you can with each stroke and then relaxing on the recovery as you go up to give it another hard drive. Most training plans call for workouts at various rates ranging from less than 20spm to well over 30spm. At the low rates you can work on form, strength, and endurance. At the high rates you can work on learning to coordinate breathing and achieving competitive times, especially for the shorter pieces. Most beginners are short on endurance and need a lot of long pieces at low rates to improve it and to improve core strength. Then they can phase in workouts with shorter, high rate pieces to improve their times for the most common competition piece, the 2k.

If you already have good endurance and core strength, you might want to move on to a later phase, but the low rate work is still valuable for working on your technique.

Bob S.

P.S. Most guys your size are inclined to go at lower rates, since there is extra work done just moving your body back and forth and this work does not show up on the monitor.

As someone who can remember what it felt like at low rating for the first time, I understand what you mean. Bob is right though, except for the advocates of constant distance per stroke, everyone does these sessions. In addition, the 30'R20 (30 mins done at a constant 20 SPM) is considered one of the hardest tests of endurance as every stroke is at very high power. The secret, as Bob said, is to slow the slide on the recovery (without stopping). At 20 or less this initially feels exaggerated. However, as you have further to slide than a short-arse like me, it should be easier for you. Ideally, little energy is used on the recovery as you get no credit for this. However, your muscles get a chance to recover from the hard work in the drive ready for another hard drive. So you can maintain a higher power with each stroke. Some people would not advocate <20 SPM rows, but for some one of your size, this si a normal rating for longer "recovery" rows.

Happy erging

Iain