5 K training for a personal best

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
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Heaviestuser
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5 K training for a personal best

Post by Heaviestuser » July 23rd, 2008, 5:01 pm

Hi all,
My pb stands at 20:11.

Today i rowed two times 2 k with a break in between, where i did some other exercises.
Both were below 8:00. So maybe I am shap to ro a new p.b., possibly below twenty minutes on the 5k.

Is there a special trainingprogram to make this even more likely to happen ?
My sb. at 2 k stands at 7:51, so I have to row practically as hard as i can for a longer time. I wonder ? :roll: THe damper is usually at 8, is it better to put i at 10 for a personal best ?

Regards,
:?
Heaviestuser

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Post by johnlvs2run » July 23rd, 2008, 5:31 pm

Your training sounds good. The only way to find out is to do a 5k and see how it goes. :)

My PB drag factor was 97, which is as high as I'd have it for a 5k, but is a matter of personal preference.

Before my 5k PB, I did several sessions of 40x 1' at 1:54, with a 30" rest after each.
These were paced and well off the fastest I'd done of 1:50.2 for that session.
74 5'8 155
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tdekoekkoek
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Re: 5 K training for a personal best

Post by tdekoekkoek » July 23rd, 2008, 6:18 pm

Heaviestuser wrote:Hi all,
THe damper is usually at 8, is it better to put i at 10 for a personal best ?
Although it is somewhat of a personal choice, IMO your damper setting is too high. I usually have mine at between 4 and 5 (around 120 drag factor) and as has been noted many have it much lower. Apparently even Rob Waddel had his at 99 drag when he set a world record. So no, you certainly do not want it higher to do a PB. Chances are with it set that high, unless you already have been rowing a long time and know how to row with a high setting, that you are making compromises with the stroke. It might now feel that high to you, but if you are really driving well with the legs, it would be difficult to maintain a setting of 8. I would try practicing with it a lot lower and then bump it up again later if you feel it helps.
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5 K training for a personal best

Post by iain » July 24th, 2008, 6:23 am

Heaviestuser wrote:Hi all,
My pb stands at 20:11.

Today i rowed two times 2 k with a break in between, where i did some other exercises.
Both were below 8:00. So maybe I am shap to ro a new p.b., possibly below twenty minutes on the 5k.

Is there a special trainingprogram to make this even more likely to happen ?
My sb. at 2 k stands at 7:51, so I have to row practically as hard as i can for a longer time. I wonder ? :roll: THe damper is usually at 8, is it better to put i at 10 for a personal best ?

Regards,
:?
Heaviestuser
As said by others, you need to learn about drag factor, there are many good threads on this. But start by finding out what 8 on your machine represents. This could be <90 if machine is full of fluff or >180 if clean, so the lever setting alone is not very helpful. Most Hwt men use 115-140, although you might try lowering a little at a time as it will feel different, 10 at a time should be fine. At lower drag the flywheel needs to have a higher average pace, but will not slow down as much between strokes, so your technique needs to be good to accelerate fast at the catch with your legs against the lower resistance. This should also be more comfortable on longer rows and so may allow you to build the distance, 5k requires a lot of endurance.

Please see the 5k Plan from Pete: http://thepeteplan.wordpress.com/5k-training/, Pete recommends doing 6 x 1k with 1 min. rest between each as a proxy for 5k PB pace. So you might like to try this starting at 2:01 (current PB) and speeding up for the last 2 if you have anything left, throwing everything into a mad spring at the end of the last. The average pace should indicate your 5k potential (but see below, 2:04 might be a more realistic pace).

For someone whose fitness and power are equivalent, "Paul's Law" predicts a 6.5S drop off in pace per 500m between 2k and 5k. 7:51 2k is 1:57.7/500m, so this would suggest a 2:04 5k or 20:40. a 3.3S drop off (to your current PB) is very low and only normal for people who have been concentrating primarily on endurance and are generally endurance rather than power types (typical of shorter, older lightweights). I suggest that your 2k SB should be easier to break than your 5k PB! Anyway, if you decide on the above program it include 2k TT's as the 3 x 2k should be done as W/up, TT, W/down every 3 weeks. You should aim to be in the mid 7:30's for a sub 20' 5k.

What ever you decide, keep us posted and best of luck.

- Iain

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Post by Heaviestuser » August 10th, 2008, 9:06 am

@ Iain,
Thanks !
Today I rowed 20:32:1 out of the blue. I set the paceboat at 2:20/500m.

SPM was below 30, Damper level @8.
I all went very well, so during the 5 k I decided to go for it. In the end I didnot even know if it was a seasonal best. I only discovered this, when I checked World Online Rowing.


Greetz,
:roll:
Heaviestuser
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Post by Citroen » August 10th, 2008, 11:55 am

Heaviestuser wrote:Damper level @8.
The damper lever position doesn't always match on each rower. The amount of crud and fluff in the flywheel cage can radically change the damping of the flywheel. (There's other factors like temperature and height above sea level - but that doesn't have much effect for me in the UK or for you in the Netherlands.)

So you'll find that folks on here don't talk about damper lever positions, rather they talk about drag factor. Drag factor (DF) is a number measured by the PM2/PM2+/PM3 or PM4 monitor on every stroke. The monitor uses that as part of the maths to calculate the pace for 500m. That combined with stroke rate gives your time to cover the 10K distance.

The PM will display the drag factor. You can use that number to configure two rowing machines to have an identical feel, by matching the drag factor numbers.

On a PM2/PM2+ (remove the HR interface if fitted), turn on the monitor and press [OK]+[REST] at the same time. Row six or seven big strokes to get the flywheel spinning and the DF will be displayed in the lower right of the monitor (annotated with "drag").

On a PM3/PM4 choose More Options from the main menu then choose Display Drag Factor. Again row six or seven nice strong strokes to get the number.

On a clean, well maintained machine the DF should range from about 95 (damper 1) to 210 (damper 10). The worst I've ever seen was DF 109 on damper 10 (the cruddy old model C machine in the Basingstoke Hilton Hotel).

I usually row on 120 df. (That was damper 3 on the model C I was using today.) A drag factor somewhere from 115 to 135 will suit most folks. It's completly your choice. The only, normal, rule is that in competitions once the drag is set it can't be adjusted during the race. The higher drag tends to push the focus of your rowing from legs to more arms, which isn't a good thing unless you're rowing a short course (100m or 300m) sprint.

On a clean machine damper 8 is too high for most folks. Having it that high tends to point to troubles with your technique.

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Well done on SB

Post by iain » August 11th, 2008, 5:19 am

Heaviestuser wrote:Today I rowed 20:32:1 out of the blue. I set the paceboat at 2:20/500m.
2:20 - 2:03.2 :shock: That's an impressive improvement on your target, well done. I'd be interested to know what drag you are rowing on (see Citroen's post above). but to get back down to PB's, I would suggest that you concentrate on producing more power per stroke (assuming that "below 30" means close to 30!). Unless you started close to target pace and only speeded up later, you have a little way to go to <20' and >30 for a 5k is tough going. I would stick with 2:20 pace, but up the distance (8k?) and slow the rating to increase endurance and practice technique and maintaining a strong stroke. Then you'll soon be back to PB form.

Happy progress

Iain

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