Concept2 Forum

I have recently added rowing to my fitness regimen. My gym has C2 rowers (unsure which model) with the PM2 monitor. I have watched several online videos of correct form and watch the people who I see on the rowers (so far, everyone I have seen has poor form) but have no idea how I am doing. I am quite sure that I am doing something wrong as those straps work hard keeping me in place and I have a tendency to slouch anyway and I really have to think about keeping my back straight. I have only used the machine twice- one I rowed for about 15 minutes just to get an idea (and recorded no numbers) and the other was for 30 minutes and I went slightly more than 5k but mostly taking it easy with interspersed "sprints." I now know that I also need to be recording spm and 500 split times. My resistance has been set to 5.

What are some things that a new rower needs to focus on? Should I try rowing without the straps? Any good tricks for keeping a straight back? Any specific cadence I should be shooting for? I know I can exert a lot more effort than I have as I did not feel too winded after my 30 minute workout. Thanks for the help.

I'm no coach or anything but here's my suggestions.

As for the straps, that is not necessarily you doing something wrong. Some ergs have straps that come lose pretty easily, even though if you are jerking when pulling that might force your feet to try to jump off the foot rest and that might make the straps loosen up even more. If you notice your erg moves back when you use it, then that's probably what's causing it.

As for posture you just need to work the back muscles. Having a strong back will make it easier to maintain good form and posture during a piece. Make sure you are driving with your legs first and then with your back and arms. It'll take some getting used to but once you can relay the power and have a smooth pull your back should stay straight the whole time.

Try do row a certain distance full pressure and see how you do. Record the times and just practice to try to beat those times. That's the easiest way to track your progress and workout if you're just doing this for your own regard. Otherwise there are a lot of pretty convoluted workout plans that you can follow for a month or even longer.

Good luck, hope my advice helps

The main problem with learning to row is that the stroke and action are NOT instinctive. This means we have to learn a specific technique, and if we don't, we won't do any work and we won't get fit.

"Work" is an engineering term, which means Force x Length of action of the force. Work is what shifts boats and spins the flywheel, and nothing else does. Quite by chance doing work also gets us fit. So in each stroke there must be a large amount of work: in each stroke the handle must travel as far as possible, and the force applied must be high, but not so high as to cause us damage.

This lady does it very well:
http://www.ara-rowing.org/rowing-stroke

Look at all the details very carefully, in particular the recovery sequence (hands, back, slide in that order), shins vertical at the catch, straight back, head up and the fact that in only two shots of eight are her blades in the water - the recovery is very slow. Boats go by themselves if we let them because they are fast and have low drag.

After setting the damper lever to less than 3, so the machine acts like a single, this is a useful drill to do every day: sit on the backstop and pull first arms only, then add some swing, then add knee lift AFTER swinging forward (so tnat you clear your knees and get your weight on your feet), then gradually increase knee lift after the swing until you reach shins vertical. Always smooth, relaxed and no hurry at all.

Such a sequence might start at rating 50 and 50W, and end at 20 and 200W; but this depends on your shape and size. However the main principle is the slower you go, the faster the boat goes, until you reach maximum work in each single stroke.

Each stage should last a minute or so, serving to warm up too. Set the monitor to Watts and watch the Watts increasing and the rating drop as you go through the complete 5-10 minute cycle. When you are pulling as hard, as long and as slow as possible, ease off a bit, you've found your stroke and you're ready to go. Now do another million, but not before you've learnt how.

Thanks. Yesterday I set the counter to 5k and warmed up as you describe (and as the various videos out there teach- arms, then a little bit of swing, and then more and more slide). I did the 5k in 24:50 with an average 500 split of 2:30 but that includes the warm up and a second run through of all of the motions about halfway through (machine set to 3). It seems that when I was generating the most watts (low 200 range) my spm was in the mid to high 20s. Is one part of the stroke supposed to be longer than the other? I seem to recall reading that there should be a 2:1 ratio in time in couple parts of the stroke (drive and finish?). I was trying hard to not stop moving at the end and get my hands out right away but my spm being in the high 20s I figure I need to slow down but I just don't know how without stopping.

I have a little more gym time today. I am planning on rowing for 10-15 minutes but most of my time will probably be on a bike with a longer rowing session tomorrow.

kchunks wrote:I was trying hard to not stop moving at the end and get my hands out right away but my spm being in the high 20s I figure I need to slow down but I just don't know how without stopping.

I assume that by slowing down you mean lowering the stroke rate. The key is in the recovery after you have gotten your hands away. I often row at 12 spm at the beginning and end of warmups and all in one (continuous warmup, steady state, and cool down) pieces. I count five seconds as I go, one at the start of the drive and 2-5 after I have my hands away past my knees on the recovery. This gives a full 4/1 recovery to drive ratio even with the quick hands away counted in as part of the drive. At 16 and 20 spm, I do the same for 4 seconds and 3 seconds. The slow part is bending the body forward back to the catch position and creeping up the slide to make the catch. Relax on the recovery. Rowing is a continuous motion, but not a continuous effort. There is no need to be in any hurry to make that next catch. Just make each drive a solid one.

Bob S

All of the work is done on the drive when you are pulling the handle. hence you should develop a powerful drive which should be fast but not short. After you have reached the end of the stroke, your hands should go forward quickly, then you should (for longer rows at least) conciously slow up the other elements so that you crawl up the final part of the slide to reach a natural stop at the catch when you restart the stroke. The ratio quoted is for the recovery (finish to drive) to the drive (catch to finish). However, at faster ratings the recovery will shorten proportionally more than the drive and so the ratio will reduce, so there is no one correct ratio.

It is counter intuitive that you can get a good hard workout at a slow rating, but the resistance of the erg increases with the speed the handle is pulled, so a hard pull will generate a lot of work in a short time and the "boat" keeps moving (runs) albeit at a slowing speed. A leisurely recovery allows the muscles to recover for another hard stroke. this is one of the main differences of rowing to other aerobic exercises is in the length of the gaps between the efforts.

- Iain

KC, from your message it seems you are getting to solid work levels, as you say 200W+ and 5k in 24-25' with all those asides is not bad. Indeed if it produced a lot of sweat, you're well on track. In the end, sweat is the only real guide.

The rating you need to produce 200W depends on your size, as well as on technique. I'm 6'2 (188) and lazy so think anything higher than 20-22 is for extremists only; but there are plenty of people who paddle continuously at nearer 30. The 200W power means you are pulling hard strokes and that you are not short and light, but your difficulty with slow rating suggests your strokes are short; long ones give us much more time.

Don't be afraid to extend yourself for a long stroke, within your height limits; one of the advantages of rowing as an exercise is that it uses many joints and muscles over full extension. A little creaking won't hurt you as your hands get near the chainguard. Also, a long soft stroke produces just as much work as a short hard one, but is much easier and less damaging. This in absolute engineering terms, but also for specific reasons on the erg, where the catch is somewhat slack - we need to catch up with the flywheel and this is length lost. Rowing short then leaves us with nothing.

The recovery/pull time ratio can vary from 3-4 at low ratings (around 20) and half power, to 1:1 flat out at 40. It will be 2:1 more or less during 60-80% work at anaerobic threshold.

Words are not much use for coaching, but anyway: head up, back straight, swing, relax and enjoy. Rowing is for fun and our goal is to go fast with no effort.

Thanks for the pointers everyone. I am 6'2" and currently weigh in about 235 lbs (and not a good 235). I remember weighing 180 but was stick skinny and putting some muscle mass on in the best shape of my life I was around 200. Part of all of this is to drop some pounds.

Yesterday I just rowed for 15 minutes (3358 meters) after a short warm up and tried to slow down (yes Bob, in spm). I got myself to sweat more and got tired pretty quickly. When I have the watts display up I can get the 206-212 watt pulls but I seem to be averaging about 160ish. Today I was going to try a 10k but taking it easy and thinking about form, especially the recovery.

I saw a couple more people rowing yesterday, both with bad form. When I see someone who looks like they're doing it properly I might ask for some critique.

I did 10k this morning in 46:29 (I stopped twice for 30 seconds for some water). I can get the 200 watt strokes but feel like I tire too quickly. I averaged 130 watts throughout the process. I feel like now I could have pushed myself more then but I am still getting used to this (the sorest part of me is my butt).

Well done, you're on the way. Try to get your legs to do as much of the work as possible by using them full length; they have large muscles and can take it. Doing this overloads your CV system as you've seen, and will get you fit and strong in no time. Then you'll easily be able to keep going for long times and have no problem tipping your mass/energy balance the right way.

Hi kchunks

There is a good technique video on the UK site. The rower is a former GB rower, so he knows what he is doing. The other material on the technique section of the site is also extremely helpful.

Cheers
Dave.

Snail Space wrote:Hi kchunks

There is a good technique video on the UK site. The rower is a former GB rower, so he knows what he is doing. The other material on the technique section of the site is also extremely helpful.

Cheers
Dave.

Here is another, also from the UK forum:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqVmMd7FdAA

Bob S.