Concept2 Forum

Today I did 14800 meters in 60 minutes. A PB. Age 49. 6'5'', 185lbs.

I tried to keep my SPM in the 28-30 range.

My times still only works out to 2 min/500 meters. My drag was set around 130.

At the end my SP was around 32. As I see it what I need to do is work to create more force per stroke since 32 seems to me to be maxing out in SPM. How does one develop an explosive stroke and maintain it for an hour? I want to break 15,000 meters in 60 minutes

jliddil wrote:Today I did 14800 meters in 60 minutes. A PB. Age 49. 6'5'', 185lbs.

I tried to keep my SPM in the 28-30 range.

My times still only works out to 2 min/500 meters. My drag was set around 130.

At the end my SP was around 32. As I see it what I need to do is work to create more force per stroke since 32 seems to me to be maxing out in SPM. How does one develop an explosive stroke and maintain it for an hour? I want to break 15,000 meters in 60 minutes

I'm amazed that you can sustain a 30 SPM for an hour!

Try rowing strapless a couple times a week. That will limit your stroke rate to 23/24 until you really get the hang of it.

jliddil wrote:Today I did 14800 meters in 60 minutes. A PB. Age 49. 6'5'', 185lbs.

I tried to keep my SPM in the 28-30 range.

My times still only works out to 2 min/500 meters. My drag was set around 130.

At the end my SP was around 32. As I see it what I need to do is work to create more force per stroke since 32 seems to me to be maxing out in SPM. How does one develop an explosive stroke and maintain it for an hour? I want to break 15,000 meters in 60 minutes

Have you had your technique checked? For someone of your height, 28-30 is an awfully high stroke rate for anything longer than a 2k. It sounds like you might be rushing your slide, instead of sneaking up to explode on the catch. Are you taking the full long stroke that someone of your height is capable of? Are you following the sequence of legs, back, arms on the drive and then a quick hands away, with a relaxed recovery of the back and legs?

Check out some of the videos available that show the proper technique.

Bob S.

I hate to be pedantic, but your sixty minutes are going to take an hour. You can't change that without changing the laws of physics.

I suspect you meant "Improving 60 minutes distance"

Citroen wrote:I hate to be pedantic, but your sixty minutes are going to take an hour. You can't change that without changing the laws of physics.

I suspect you meant "Improving 60 minutes distance"

No you don't!

jliddil wrote:Today I did 14800 meters in 60 minutes. A PB. Age 49. 6'5'', 185lbs.

I tried to keep my SPM in the 28-30 range.

My times still only works out to 2 min/500 meters. My drag was set around 130.

At the end my SP was around 32. As I see it what I need to do is work to create more force per stroke since 32 seems to me to be maxing out in SPM. How does one develop an explosive stroke and maintain it for an hour? I want to break 15,000 meters in 60 minutes

Given your size, you are taking about half a stroke, 6-7 watts per stroke rather than 12-14.

It is not amazing at all that you can hold 30 spm for 60 min.

It is amazing that, given your size, you can generate so little power while doing so.

Try doing some pulls, 1:43 @ 20 spm.

For those with your size and good technique, _that_ is rowing well.

Bit of a revelation.

No?

ranger

ranger wrote:

jliddil wrote:Today I did 14800 meters in 60 minutes. A PB. Age 49. 6'5'', 185lbs.

I tried to keep my SPM in the 28-30 range.

My times still only works out to 2 min/500 meters. My drag was set around 130.

At the end my SP was around 32. As I see it what I need to do is work to create more force per stroke since 32 seems to me to be maxing out in SPM. How does one develop an explosive stroke and maintain it for an hour? I want to break 15,000 meters in 60 minutes

Given your size, you are taking about half a stroke, 6-7 watts per stroke rather than 12-14.

It is not amazing at all that you can hold 30 spm for 60 min.

It is amazing that, given your size, you can generate so little power while doing so.
Try doing some pulls, 1:43 @ 20 spm.
For those with your size and good technique, _that_ is rowing well.
Bit of a revelation.
No?

ranger

This advice is the same as you would give a power lifter who can lift 100 kg the advice to just lift 200

The stroke you are now using is very gentle, you can easily improve on this, try to keep the same pace but row at a lower spm. First 28 instead of 30, if you got this go to 26, rowing around 22/24 is a nice spm.

Ps you very likely don,t finish your stroke, you start coming back on the rail while still pulling the handle, first the finish the pulling and then start the next stroke, if you do this your stroke will be a lot stronger at once.

hjs wrote:

jliddil wrote:Today I did 14800 meters in 60 minutes. A PB. Age 49. 6'5'', 185lbs.

This advice is the same as you would give a power lifter who can lift 100 kg the advice to just lift 200

The stroke you are now using is very gentle, you can easily improve on this, try to keep the same pace but row at a lower spm. First 28 instead of 30, if you got this go to 26, rowing around 22/24 is a nice spm.

Ps you very likely don,t finish your stroke, you start coming back on the rail while still pulling the handle, first the finish the pulling and then start the next stroke, if you do this your stroke will be a lot stronger at once.

At the end I was rushing things as it was all I could do to keep from stopping due to sweat burning my eyes. I just wanted to be done.

Ok so here is the deal. I can do an hour at 18-22 SPM and do around 14000- 14500 @ 22-23 SPM on a regular basis. I've watched the videos, DVD, You Tube, Crossfit. I have a mirror in front of me at the corporate gym. I just can not seem to pull below 1:50 -1:55/500 M even when I concentrate all out on form. am I expecting too much?

ranger wrote:Try doing some pulls, 1:43 @ 20 spm.

A good reason for banning ranger. This kind of 'advice' is unhelpful, dispiriting and dangerous.

jliddil wrote:

hjs wrote:

jliddil wrote:Today I did 14800 meters in 60 minutes. A PB. Age 49. 6'5'', 185lbs.

This advice is the same as you would give a power lifter who can lift 100 kg the advice to just lift 200

The stroke you are now using is very gentle, you can easily improve on this, try to keep the same pace but row at a lower spm. First 28 instead of 30, if you got this go to 26, rowing around 22/24 is a nice spm.

Ps you very likely don,t finish your stroke, you start coming back on the rail while still pulling the handle, first the finish the pulling and then start the next stroke, if you do this your stroke will be a lot stronger at once.

At the end I was rushing things as it was all I could do to keep from stopping due to sweat burning my eyes. I just wanted to be done.

Ok so here is the deal. I can do an hour at 18-22 SPM and do around 14000- 14500 @ 22-23 SPM on a regular basis. I've watched the videos, DVD, You Tube, Crossfit. I have a mirror in front of me at the corporate gym. I just can not seem to pull below 1:50 -1:55/500 M even when I concentrate all out on form. am I expecting too much?

If you can,t pull 1.50 rate 20 you simply are not strong enough to do so right now, if you focus on doing more low rate work next to your higher rate work you can and will improve, how much ? Hard to say for me right now, just picking a numbet out of thin air and try to pull that is simply silly. You should always try to mentain a good form.

Little steps forward is the way.

ranger wrote:It is amazing that, given your size, you can generate so little power while doing so.

Very supportive ... and helpful too.

hjs wrote:

jliddil wrote:

hjs wrote:
This advice is the same as you would give a power lifter who can lift 100 kg the advice to just lift 200

The stroke you are now using is very gentle, you can easily improve on this, try to keep the same pace but row at a lower spm. First 28 instead of 30, if you got this go to 26, rowing around 22/24 is a nice spm.

Ps you very likely don,t finish your stroke, you start coming back on the rail while still pulling the handle, first the finish the pulling and then start the next stroke, if you do this your stroke will be a lot stronger at once.

At the end I was rushing things as it was all I could do to keep from stopping due to sweat burning my eyes. I just wanted to be done.

Ok so here is the deal. I can do an hour at 18-22 SPM and do around 14000- 14500 @ 22-23 SPM on a regular basis. I've watched the videos, DVD, You Tube, Crossfit. I have a mirror in front of me at the corporate gym. I just can not seem to pull below 1:50 -1:55/500 M even when I concentrate all out on form. am I expecting too much?

If you can,t pull 1.50 rate 20 you simply are not strong enough to do so right now, if you focus on doing more low rate work next to your higher rate work you can and will improve, how much ? Hard to say for me right now, just picking a numbet out of thin air and try to pull that is simply silly. You should always try to mentain a good form.

Little steps forward is the way.

exactly on both counts, practicing low rate will improve it, always try and keep good form. Strapless rowing helps on both counts in my experience.
Keep at it, you'll get better

jliddil wrote:I can do an hour at 18-22 SPM and do around 14000- 14500 @ 22-23 SPM on a regular basis. I've watched the videos, DVD, You Tube, Crossfit. I have a mirror in front of me at the corporate gym. I just can not seem to pull below 1:50 -1:55/500 M even when I concentrate all out on form. am I expecting too much?

Are you trying to hold the lower splits at high or low rating? 14.5k in an hour at 23 SPM is work of 8W'. If you pull identical strokes but go up the slide quicker to increase the rating, you would need to rate 29 at 1:55 and 33 at 1:50. Clearly you wouldn't expect to be able to maintain this for anything like as long. If you can't maintain the power for even a few strokes, your technique must be deteriorating. So you are either not set strongly at the catch, are breaking your knees before finishing the stroke or shortening your stroke. the best way to rectify this is gradually. Try and pull 2:02 splits at 24, then 2:01 at 25, 1:59 at 26 etc. When doing this it is a good idea to do shorter pieces as technique is more likely to suffer when tired.

- Iain

jliddil wrote:Ok so here is the deal. I can do an hour at 18-22 SPM and do around 14000- 14500 @ 22-23 SPM on a regular basis. I've watched the videos, DVD, You Tube, Crossfit. I have a mirror in front of me at the corporate gym. I just can not seem to pull below 1:50 -1:55/500 M even when I concentrate all out on form. am I expecting too much?

jliddil,

After I sent my earlier message on this thread, I noticed that you were not new on this forum, i.e. you were credited with 19 posts. I looked up your old posts and saw that I had responded at that time. Since my response to the current thread was just a rehash of the same advice I gave long ago, I apologize for that. It sounds like you have done a thorough job of learning about technique.

However, I still think that there might be technique issues. There are things that we don't see using a mirror and, even with a video, there are things that we miss unless it is slowed down to a frame by frame. There are two solutions for this. One is to find a knowledgeable rowing coach to critique your technique. That does not mean the typical fitness center employees who are usually clueless about rowing. Another is to have someone make a video of your workout, preferably from the side, and post it on this forum and the UK C2 forum to see what the members have to say.

I have a strong hunch that you might have a slide-shooting problem. Slide-shooting, or bum-shoving as the Brits call it, is one of the major power thieves. It uses up much of that all important drive by the powerful quads and puts most of the load on your back and arms. It isn't something that is easy for you to notice on your own, but it should show up clearly in a video taken from the side.

Bob S.

what would be the best spm for long distance rowing. I would guess 22-24 range but is it more just individual preference. It seems like it takes less energy to pull harder with a low spm than a fast spm with the same 500 avg.