rowing as cross training for a marathon

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jhbugsy
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Re: rowing as cross training for a marathon

Post by jhbugsy » June 3rd, 2020, 5:46 pm

ok, so this morning i rowed for 60 minutes. my avg. drag factor was 130, avg strokes per minute was 23, and my avg. watts was 84, and I rowed 11,373 meters.
I have no idea if I'm using the right drag factor, strokes per minute, appropriate avg watts, etc., and if the workout is too long or short for marathon cross training.
Thoughts?

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hjs
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Re: rowing as cross training for a marathon

Post by hjs » June 4th, 2020, 4:04 am

jhbugsy wrote:
June 1st, 2020, 7:32 am
MudSweatAndYears wrote:
May 31st, 2020, 6:53 pm
I am also a runner using indoor rowing as cross training. However, I am not a marathoner (I mostly run HM distances), but like OP I run 3-4 times a week. Every non-running day I row. Effectively I am utilising the fact that rowing is a low-impact activity, and my rowing days act as ‘rest days’ for my joints and tendons.

My rowing now focuses on 10k easy rowing whereby I aim for a heart rate similar to what I observe in easy runs. For me that happens to correspond to 2 W power per kg body weight (in line with jamesg’s suggestion).
Thank you for sharing your experience. A couple of questions: I can't seem to get my rowing heart rate up to my easy marathon heart rate, e.g. 112 bpm even when I'm rowing hard. I wonder if I am using an incorrect combination of rpms, damper setting, etc.
Also, if you are rowing 10K as a HMer should I be rowing 20K on off days?
Finally, as a newbie to rowing, I don't "get" the whole "watts" thing. What is it, how do I use it, and how do I find the the best watts setting for what I am trying to accomplish?
Appreciate your feedback!
Joe H
What pace per 500 are you going, thats by far the most important number, strokerate fir a runner should not be 20/23 but higher, aim for 30.

You almost certainly use a wrong technique, using very little power, and put very little energy in the chain. It should be very easy to get you hr up, if you put some energy in. A bit like running, you can slowly dribble or really run. On the rower you are now easy drippling, learn to run.

Dangerscouse
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Re: rowing as cross training for a marathon

Post by Dangerscouse » June 4th, 2020, 5:21 am

jhbugsy wrote:
June 3rd, 2020, 5:46 pm
ok, so this morning i rowed for 60 minutes. my avg. drag factor was 130, avg strokes per minute was 23, and my avg. watts was 84, and I rowed 11,373 meters.
I have no idea if I'm using the right drag factor, strokes per minute, appropriate avg watts, etc., and if the workout is too long or short for marathon cross training.
Thoughts?
Your pace is very slow (2:38) and I'd suggest that this probably needs to be circa 2:15 as you're a marathon runner, so you clearly have fitness and your HR is only 112 at this pace.

Or it might be better to use your HR as a proxy for pace: row so it gets to 70% and then slow down to maintain this HR and the pace can be whatever it is.

What you need to be doing is adding more explosive power to your stroke through a stronger leg drive and making sure to rock backwards and forwards so you maximise the length of the leg drive and the strength of the pull with the arms and back.
46 HWT; 6' 4"; 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:24; 6k= 21:09; 10k= 35:46 30mins= 8,428m 60mins= 16,331m HM= 1:18:40; FM= 2:45:49; 50k= 3:21:14; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you row"

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jhbugsy
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Re: rowing as cross training for a marathon

Post by jhbugsy » June 4th, 2020, 6:34 am

hjs wrote:
June 4th, 2020, 4:04 am
jhbugsy wrote:
June 1st, 2020, 7:32 am
MudSweatAndYears wrote:
May 31st, 2020, 6:53 pm
I am also a runner using indoor rowing as cross training. However, I am not a marathoner (I mostly run HM distances), but like OP I run 3-4 times a week. Every non-running day I row. Effectively I am utilising the fact that rowing is a low-impact activity, and my rowing days act as ‘rest days’ for my joints and tendons.

My rowing now focuses on 10k easy rowing whereby I aim for a heart rate similar to what I observe in easy runs. For me that happens to correspond to 2 W power per kg body weight (in line with jamesg’s suggestion).
Thank you for sharing your experience. A couple of questions: I can't seem to get my rowing heart rate up to my easy marathon heart rate, e.g. 112 bpm even when I'm rowing hard. I wonder if I am using an incorrect combination of rpms, damper setting, etc.
Also, if you are rowing 10K as a HMer should I be rowing 20K on off days?
Finally, as a newbie to rowing, I don't "get" the whole "watts" thing. What is it, how do I use it, and how do I find the the best watts setting for what I am trying to accomplish?
Appreciate your feedback!
Joe H
What pace per 500 are you going, thats by far the most important number, strokerate fir a runner should not be 20/23 but higher, aim for 30.

You almost certainly use a wrong technique, using very little power, and put very little energy in the chain. It should be very easy to get you hr up, if you put some energy in. A bit like running, you can slowly dribble or really run. On the rower you are now easy drippling, learn to run.
Very helpful, thank you. I will increase my intensity to get my stroke rate and heart bpm up, but I doubt I can sustain it for 60 minutes! Maybe 30 minutes?

jhbugsy
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Re: rowing as cross training for a marathon

Post by jhbugsy » June 4th, 2020, 6:41 am

Dangerscouse wrote:
June 4th, 2020, 5:21 am
jhbugsy wrote:
June 3rd, 2020, 5:46 pm
ok, so this morning i rowed for 60 minutes. my avg. drag factor was 130, avg strokes per minute was 23, and my avg. watts was 84, and I rowed 11,373 meters.
I have no idea if I'm using the right drag factor, strokes per minute, appropriate avg watts, etc., and if the workout is too long or short for marathon cross training.
Thoughts?
Your pace is very slow (2:38) and I'd suggest that this probably needs to be circa 2:15 as you're a marathon runner, so you clearly have fitness and your HR is only 112 at this pace.

Or it might be better to use your HR as a proxy for pace: row so it gets to 70% and then slow down to maintain this HR and the pace can be whatever it is.

What you need to be doing is adding more explosive power to your stroke through a stronger leg drive and making sure to rock backwards and forwards so you maximise the length of the leg drive and the strength of the pull with the arms and back.
Thank you! Sounds like you and MudSweatandYears are making similar suggestions, I.e. row with more intensity in order to get my stroke rate and heart rate up.

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hjs
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Re: rowing as cross training for a marathon

Post by hjs » June 4th, 2020, 6:53 am

jhbugsy wrote:
June 4th, 2020, 6:34 am


Very helpful, thank you. I will increase my intensity to get my stroke rate and heart bpm up, but I doubt I can sustain it for 60 minutes! Maybe 30 minutes?
That I can,t comment on, only that rowing does use a large portion of the body and if you row correct it should be easy to get your hf up.

Reason for using a higher rate is not to increese intensity, but it suits running better. Rowing is much more a power endurance sport compared to running. Rowers needs to be a lot stronger.

Intensity could be possible at any rate. But the lower the rating, the more power per stroke is needed.

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hobbit
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Re: rowing as cross training for a marathon

Post by hobbit » August 27th, 2020, 4:34 pm

I'm reviving this thread, as I am transitioning out of a "rowing only" phase, forced by a calf injury, to a rowing/running mix.I have a big race in a couple of months and I really want to be in top shape. Time is short. For my easy days, I'm experimenting with rowing, 6-8k at 2.5W/kg, followed by an easy run. I'm up to 30min running at the moment. This allows me to increase the amount of aerobic work I do without such a high risk of injury. When I get back on the track, in a week, I hope, we'll see how much it has contributed to my running fitness.
M 65 163cm/5' 4" 57kg/126lb
2k 8:16 (2018) -- 5k 21:03 (2018) -- 30' 7038m (2018) -- 10k 43:19 (2018) -- 60' 13475m (2019) -- HM 1:34:04 (2019)

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