First week of use - First concerns

Talk about the ski ergometer and training tool from Concept2
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piv3z86
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First week of use - First concerns

Post by piv3z86 » July 5th, 2018, 4:51 am

Hi there, I'm totally new in here and in the world of ergs and xc skiing.

I totally love the machine, but after a week of use I have some concerns I want to express and maybe I can find answers or hints to face them:
1) PM5 calories: as I already read, PM5 calorie counting formula is based on a specific formula, that takes a 80kg person into account with some fixed values. You can calculate the final calories burned with this tool: http://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/t ... calculator . So far, everything clear, but, I also got a Polar H10 paired to the PM5 with heart rate showing, and there is no way to insert that value in the calculator. Is the PM5 showing calories burned taking into account also my BPM? And shouldn't the calculator also make a difference between bikerg, rower or skierg? I mean, if I do a standing exercise (skierg), shouldn't I burn more than doin something sitting (bikerg)? Or is it just the same/similar as rowing?
2) Simulator: While I was searching for a complementary app to track better my calories burned (although I couldn't find any) on http://www.concept2.com/service/software/other-apps , I found this: Simway XC Ski . So I registered, downloaded and activated the software, connected the PM5 to PC (the C2 utility recognizes the machine) but once inside the simulator on the track my strokes are not recognised and I wont move on the track. Any guide or anything on how to set it up?
3) Workout: I'm 177cm tall and 73kg weight, 15,9% bodyfat. I'd like to cut my bodyfat to a 10% range, keeping my weight, maybe putting some muscles on but not a pumped up-style physique. Any hints on what workouts on the skierg I should follow? I thought LISS 2 times a week (30 mins) and 1 HIIT (20'' hitting hard at grade 10, 40" of rest) 15 minutes once a week. The other days of week I do bouldering 2 hours once and I walk on mountains at least 6h (700-1000m height difference) once. Should I increase/decrease something? I eat pretty much clean, not much carbs, occasionally sugars (icecream and dark chocolate), lots of veggies and prots.

I thank in advance for each response. :D
Sorry for bad englando, I'm Italian :lol:

SimWay
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Re: First week of use - First concerns

Post by SimWay » July 6th, 2018, 3:59 am

Hi,

Eric at SimWay here! It should be just plug-and-play, so no installer or so. You should use the USB typ B contact at the SkiErg and USB type A at the PC. You could try different USB ports on the PC and try to change USB cable. Please let me know if this do not solve your problems! You can reach me at info@simway.se.

With best regards

PEK

jamesg
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Re: First week of use - First concerns

Post by jamesg » July 7th, 2018, 2:03 am

Extra heat produced during erging is considered to be 4 times the work delivered to the handle. So this heat is 4 x average Watts x hours aboard, applying any coefficient needed to convert to other units. E.g.1 kWh=860 kCal.

When using machinery like the erg that measures Work directly, there can be little point in using HR as a proxy for data that we have already.

You'll probably get best results in terms of fitness, which will enable you to produce a lot of heat, by learning to row and then by rowing at about 2W/kg.
77y, 188cm, 85kg, MHR 160. Last 2k (May 1018) 8.37@23

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Ombrax
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Re: First week of use - First concerns

Post by Ombrax » July 7th, 2018, 5:38 am

piv3z86 wrote:if I do a standing exercise (skierg), shouldn't I burn more than doin something sitting (bikerg)?
Depends on the specific muscles you're using and how hard you're using them.

I wouldn't worry too much about calories, just exercise as many times a week as your schedule and body can handle, work hard at it and over time you'll see beneficial results both in your performance as measured by the erg and in your body.

Good Luck

piv3z86
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Re: First week of use - First concerns

Post by piv3z86 » July 9th, 2018, 3:18 am

Thank you PEK, I also got your response on e-mail, I will try with another cable :) you guys are great!
jamesg wrote:Extra heat produced during erging is considered to be 4 times the work delivered to the handle. So this heat is 4 x average Watts x hours aboard, applying any coefficient needed to convert to other units. E.g.1 kWh=860 kCal.

When using machinery like the erg that measures Work directly, there can be little point in using HR as a proxy for data that we have already.

You'll probably get best results in terms of fitness, which will enable you to produce a lot of heat, by learning to row and then by rowing at about 2W/kg.
This is one of my logs:
Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
30:00.0 5,473m 2:44.4 79 570 37
this means I shouldn't go for time or lenght but for Watts (146W if I'm 73kg)?
Ombrax wrote:I wouldn't worry too much about calories, just exercise as many times a week as your schedule and body can handle, work hard at it and over time you'll see beneficial results both in your performance as measured by the erg and in your body.
Good Luck
Will do, thank you :)

jamesg
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Re: First week of use - First concerns

Post by jamesg » July 14th, 2018, 12:50 am

This is one of my logs:
Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
30:00.0 5,473m 2:44.4 79 570 37
this means I shouldn't go for time or lenght but for Watts (146W if I'm 73kg)?
Yes. Watts is a measure of Work delivered to the handle.

Your above figures show 79 Watt, 37 spm. This means that your stroke work is 79/37 = 2.1 Watt minutes.

79W at 37 is low power but high rating, implying that you are using arms only. However rowing is done with the legs, where the large muscles are. Being large, they load our CV system heavily, and so can cause a training effect if used.

As to age and sex, a good value for Watt/Spm would be between 5 and 10, done by pulling long strokes at low rating. A first target could be 100W at rating 20, increasing to 200W at 20 as to age and sex.

You may need to adjust the drag setting; technique is best learnt at low drag. The C2 technique video shows how it's done. Credo sia visibile pure sul sito C2 italiano.
77y, 188cm, 85kg, MHR 160. Last 2k (May 1018) 8.37@23

kini62
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Re: First week of use - First concerns

Post by kini62 » July 18th, 2018, 3:36 pm

jamesg wrote:
This is one of my logs:
Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
30:00.0 5,473m 2:44.4 79 570 37
this means I shouldn't go for time or lenght but for Watts (146W if I'm 73kg)?
Yes. Watts is a measure of Work delivered to the handle.

Your above figures show 79 Watt, 37 spm. This means that your stroke work is 79/37 = 2.1 Watt minutes.

79W at 37 is low power but high rating, implying that you are using arms only. However rowing is done with the legs, where the large muscles are. Being large, they load our CV system heavily, and so can cause a training effect if used.

As to age and sex, a good value for Watt/Spm would be between 5 and 10, done by pulling long strokes at low rating. A first target could be 100W at rating 20, increasing to 200W at 20 as to age and sex.

You may need to adjust the drag setting; technique is best learnt at low drag. The C2 technique video shows how it's done. Credo sia visibile pure sul sito C2 italiano.
The op is using is using a skierg not a rower.
55m, 5'6" 155lbs, rowing and skiing (pseudo) on the Big Island of Hawaii.

piv3z86
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Re: First week of use - First concerns

Post by piv3z86 » July 19th, 2018, 5:28 am

Sooo, i was able to make the Skierg work wit the Simway XC Sim. I had to select the the simple Ski program to make the PC understand that I was rowing, my bad :lol: The only thing is that Video it didn't look like it was synchronised, second ratio machine/sim was 2:1. So after 30:00 mins of skierging, the simulator was only at 15:00 mins time, same as km done were just aproximately the half. weird :?:
jamesg wrote: Yes. Watts is a measure of Work delivered to the handle.

Your above figures show 79 Watt, 37 spm. This means that your stroke work is 79/37 = 2.1 Watt minutes.

79W at 37 is low power but high rating, implying that you are using arms only. However rowing is done with the legs, where the large muscles are. Being large, they load our CV system heavily, and so can cause a training effect if used.

As to age and sex, a good value for Watt/Spm would be between 5 and 10, done by pulling long strokes at low rating. A first target could be 100W at rating 20, increasing to 200W at 20 as to age and sex.

You may need to adjust the drag setting; technique is best learnt at low drag. The C2 technique video shows how it's done. Credo sia visibile pure sul sito C2 italiano.
kini62 wrote: The op is using is using a skierg not a rower.
Yes exactly, I thought rowing was the universal term even if I train on Skierg.
At the moment, I cannot apply more power without going too high with heart rate. Here I was at ~90%.
5,365m
Meters
30:06.4
Time
2:48.3
Pace
275
Calories
178
Heart Rate

Kinda feel like LISS is not the right thing to do on this kind of machine, which is fine for me. I'm focused on heart rate as I don't wanna over-train and get problems.
Schedule for new weeks will be like this:
2 times a week (30 mins) range ~75-85%max bpm and 1 HIIT (20'' hitting hard at grade 10, 40" of rest) 15 minutes once a week. The other days of week I keep bouldering 2 hours once and walking on mountains once.
Monday rest, Tuesday boulder, Wednesday 30min, Thursday HIIT, Friday rest, Saturday and Sunday walk and 30min.
Any hints?

Will keep this post updated with my experiences and adjust my workout routine according to your suggestions and my experience.

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johnlvs2run
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Re: First week of use - First concerns

Post by johnlvs2run » July 19th, 2018, 9:36 am

Piv3z86,
Your schedule looks fine to me. I'm impressed you're doing 30 minutes already.

Watts are a measure of power over time, not per stroke, and have direct correlation with pace.
The faster your pace, the more power, the more watts. There's a watts to pace calculator here, or just
watch the pace on your monitor. Usually the faster your stroke rate, the faster the pace and more power,
within the confines of your heart rate, fitness, coordination, and especially on the skierg, the overall body weight.

What did you do your first day and week on the Skierg? Mine will be arriving by next week.
72, 5'8", 155lbs
Please request that concept2 add a skierg lightweight division,
and develop a watts per weight ranking system, so that everyone can participate.
my training log

piv3z86
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Re: First week of use - First concerns

Post by piv3z86 » July 20th, 2018, 3:01 am

Thank you for you explanation.
The very first time was 2000m to test myself at the machine.
Then I straight started with the 30:00 mins. :lol: I started with 1 July, first week I did 3x30min. Here my profile https://log.concept2.com/profile/1205079
Last week I did 9,891m in 1:00:05, the day before bouldering, which wasn't very smart, as I had a drop in performance while climbing :D it's doable, but I wont stick to it, yet. At the moment 30 minutes are fine for me, will increase when I get to better results in terms of meters per 30min.
15 mins HIIT at the moment are not doable, yestarday at 10 mins I quit, but I will try to get there.
johnlvs2run wrote:Mine will be arriving by next week.
Welcome in the club :D

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johnlvs2run
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Re: First week of use - First concerns

Post by johnlvs2run » July 20th, 2018, 11:15 am

piv3z86 wrote:Welcome in the club :D
Thank you!

Your improvement in meters is quite impressive, especially the 3x 30' and already an hour. Keep up the good work.
72, 5'8", 155lbs
Please request that concept2 add a skierg lightweight division,
and develop a watts per weight ranking system, so that everyone can participate.
my training log

piv3z86
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Re: First week of use - First concerns

Post by piv3z86 » July 30th, 2018, 6:57 am

I'm keeping track of my activities as it seems like I can't have a fixed routine due to work or private life schedule. Here to the sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

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Re: First week of use - First concerns

Post by SimWay » July 31st, 2018, 2:20 am

Hi piv3z86

Regarding the 2:1 ratio issue with the sim-software, could you email a movie showing this to pek[a}simway.se? I have never heard of such problem and we would of course like to be able to understand what has happend at your installation so we can help you to solve it.

Regards

SimWay

piv3z86
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Re: First week of use - First concerns

Post by piv3z86 » August 22nd, 2018, 3:24 pm

I formatted the PC and fixed it. ;) thank you

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