Skierg vs running times

Talk about the ski ergometer and training tool from Concept2
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Sapling
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Skierg vs running times

Post by Sapling » October 5th, 2019, 2:18 pm

Hey, is anyone running regularly and doing skierg also ?

Are you faster on the skierg or when you run ? My times between the two are pretty similar, but I don't think my case is representative.

Thanks for your returns

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hjs
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Re: Skierg vs running times

Post by hjs » October 7th, 2019, 4:51 am

Sapling wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 2:18 pm
Hey, is anyone running regularly and doing skierg also ?

Are you faster on the skierg or when you run ? My times between the two are pretty similar, but I don't think my case is representative.

Thanks for your returns
Almost would think there is a inverse relation between the two, the best skiergers are heavy, which will make a poor runner.

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johnlvs2run
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Re: Skierg vs running times

Post by johnlvs2run » October 7th, 2019, 11:02 pm

I'm a long time runner, and took up the Skierg due to not being able to run anymore. I especially like the Skierg because it's very complementary to running. Almost all of the top cross country skiers in the world, are also quite good at running There are many examples. Top Norwegian XC skier Therese Johaug recently won her country's national championship in the track 10,000 meters. I was hoping she'd run in the World Champs this past week but she didn't. Ingrid Kristiansen from Norway was an International class cross country skier, before focusing on running, and later smashed the world records for the 5k, 10k, and the marathon

The average weight of a male international class cross country skier is 165 pounds.

The Pm5 doesn't account for weight, and shows pace based on absolute weight, rather than pace per weight. However, it is easy to calculate pace (watts) per weight and to get a good comparison with others in the same division. Based on pace per weight, one of the fastest in the age 70 plus division weighs 148 pounds. The top three weigh between 148 and 175 pounds. Excess weight is a "huge" disadvantage when pace is calculated based on watts per weight, the same as it would be with running and with cross country skiing.

Skierg times are not comparable to running, (1) due to the watts per weight issue, and (2) because the Skierg was not calibrated to reflect the real world times that would be done on a cross country skiing course. Therese Johaug has done 25 minutes on a cross country ski course, and ran 32 minutes in her first competitive 10k race on the track. The fastest time for a woman of her size on the Skierg is probably 40 plus minutes. Based on that, and my own running history, running times in general for an athletic person are usually much faster than times on the Skierg.

Regardless of that, were I still running and competing, I would definitely also use the Skierg as a part of my training.
74 5'8 155
age 70+ world record pace per weight percentages
bikeerg: 1k 83.5 / 4k 85.2 / 30' 89.1 / 60' 89.2 / 40k 85.6
my training log

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hjs
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Re: Skierg vs running times

Post by hjs » October 8th, 2019, 4:04 am

Crosscountry ski and ski erg are very different. Crosscountry is about the legs and moving your own bodyweight.
Skierg is upperbody strenght and fitness, legs don,t do that much. And is about absolute poweroutput, how much big the body is that does that does not matter to the machine.

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Re: Skierg vs running times

Post by flatbread » August 8th, 2020, 10:13 am

As Henry said, it depends on your build and technique. Big person using a more crossfit style will go much "faster" on the skierg than running.

I was doing 8min miles on the skierg in the bottom range of my HR zone 2 this morning, which is about what I'd see running. Probably 7:30 if I wanted to work in the upper range of that HR zone.

I'm also lack Henry's mass.

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Re: Skierg vs running times

Post by sk18088 » August 8th, 2020, 12:56 pm

Sorry for offtopic but can I ask how the skierg pace compares to rowing?
I would presume rowing on the concept2 should be easier to get a lower 500m time andhigher SPM

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Re: Skierg vs running times

Post by flatbread » August 8th, 2020, 2:09 pm

rowing erg -- much faster time

skierg -- much higher cadence/spm


I did an hour at 2:30/500 on the skierg this morning, avg hr 125, spm 40

hour on the row this afternoon, 1:59/500, avg hr 128, spm 22

huge difference in "pace" and calories/hr

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hjs
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Re: Skierg vs running times

Post by hjs » August 8th, 2020, 4:16 pm

sk18088 wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 12:56 pm
Sorry for offtopic but can I ask how the skierg pace compares to rowing?
I would presume rowing on the concept2 should be easier to get a lower 500m time andhigher SPM
Depends a bit, most people are faster on the rower, but not everybody. I have seen people being faster on the skierg.
Records on the skierg are slower, but those records are less sharp. There are fewer users and the skierg is not what the rowerg is for rowers.

To be good on the skierg you need to be strong in your upperbody, something most endurance athletes are certainly not. You can compensate that a bit with the rating, but the best skiergers I know do not rate extremely high, but are strong enough to get enough pace at moderate ratings.
I would say rating is 50% higher on the skierg compared to the rower, if more strength is an issue.

I think there are two things needed to be a good skierger. 1 be aerobicly fit, and 2 have a strong benchpress. Bit of a strange combi.

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Re: Skierg vs running times

Post by flatbread » August 8th, 2020, 6:30 pm

I wouldn't worry about "speed" on the skierg. Use a HR strap and work within your HR zones.

Where the rower translates reasonably well to the water, if you actually know how to feather an oar and your stroke on the erg translates to good balance in the boat (and that's a big if), the skierg time doesn't have a lot of correlation at all to real-world skiing.

"fast" on the skierg is just racking up an erg score, and that's going to favor a specific body type, as Henry has noted (well-muscled and not too tall), and a specific technique to get a good number.

(note -- I've never been in a rowing shell in my life, but I did a bit of nordic skiing when I was young)

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hjs
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Re: Skierg vs running times

Post by hjs » August 9th, 2020, 4:00 am

flatbread wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 6:30 pm
I wouldn't worry about "speed" on the skierg. Use a HR strap and work within your HR zones.

Where the rower translates reasonably well to the water, if you actually know how to feather an oar and your stroke on the erg translates to good balance in the boat (and that's a big if), the skierg time doesn't have a lot of correlation at all to real-world skiing.

"fast" on the skierg is just racking up an erg score, and that's going to favor a specific body type, as Henry has noted (well-muscled and not too tall), and a specific technique to get a good number.

(note -- I've never been in a rowing shell in my life, but I did a bit of nordic skiing when I was young)
For me its the other way around. The only thing that matters, for me, is the numbers. I haven’t seen my hf is over 5 years.

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