Weight equivalent on pull down

Talk about the ski ergometer and training tool from Concept2
User avatar
Eric308
1k Poster
Posts: 121
Joined: February 22nd, 2007, 8:24 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Weight equivalent on pull down

Post by Eric308 » October 18th, 2020, 9:24 am

This might seem like a stupid question, but yesterday during a 30 minute piece I thought of the above. Say the damper is set at 4, strokes per minute right at 40 for entire workout. That would equal 1200 total. That would seem like an appreciable amount of weight moved over 30 minutes. Basically like doing a light triceps cable pull down non-stop for 30 minutes. Forgive me if this sounds ridiculous. Blame it on COVID fatigue. :x

Allan Olesen
5k Poster
Posts: 543
Joined: April 27th, 2018, 6:40 am

Re: Weight equivalent on pull down

Post by Allan Olesen » October 18th, 2020, 4:14 pm

I haven't used ErgData with a SkiErg, but with the RowErg, you can see the average "weight" for each stroke.

User avatar
Eric308
1k Poster
Posts: 121
Joined: February 22nd, 2007, 8:24 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Weight equivalent on pull down

Post by Eric308 » October 18th, 2020, 7:10 pm

Thanks, I will try that. Today I compared the pull weight with the triceps pull down cable machine. It feels like exactly 15 lbs.

User avatar
hjs
Marathon Poster
Posts: 9356
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 3:18 pm
Location: Amstelveen the netherlands

Re: Weight equivalent on pull down

Post by hjs » October 19th, 2020, 3:57 am

Allan Olesen wrote:
October 18th, 2020, 4:14 pm
I haven't used ErgData with a SkiErg, but with the RowErg, you can see the average "weight" for each stroke.
Yep, but its not a tricep puldown, its a combined goodmorning plus upperbody push/pull movement.

User avatar
Eric308
1k Poster
Posts: 121
Joined: February 22nd, 2007, 8:24 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Weight equivalent on pull down

Post by Eric308 » October 19th, 2020, 9:32 am

According to Concept2, the proper form does not bend near a much at the waist as a Good Morning at almost 90 degrees. I replicated the movement in the links with the triceps machine.
https://www.concept2.com/news/5-common-errors-skierg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0lIgT5PHc8

User avatar
hjs
Marathon Poster
Posts: 9356
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 3:18 pm
Location: Amstelveen the netherlands

Re: Weight equivalent on pull down

Post by hjs » October 19th, 2020, 10:12 am

Eric308 wrote:
October 19th, 2020, 9:32 am
According to Concept2, the proper form does not bend near a much at the waist as a Good Morning at almost 90 degrees. I replicated the movement in the links with the triceps machine.
https://www.concept2.com/news/5-common-errors-skierg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0lIgT5PHc8
90 is a bit to much, but doing the movement with the triceps only would get us nowhere, the more muscle we get involved the faster you could go and imo the better the movement. The triceps certainly do work, but for me mostly in a static way. Preventing the arms to bend to much. But it certainly not a movement like a triceps extension.

My, “good morning” style has been criticised before :wink: But gave me a few WR which are standing a few years now. The people doing so pull with 2 arms what I do with 1. I very much doubt their technique is close to optimal.

mromero680
Paddler
Posts: 34
Joined: April 19th, 2020, 5:40 pm

Re: Weight equivalent on pull down

Post by mromero680 » October 19th, 2020, 4:16 pm

I don't feel the triceps much if I'm using both arms but, if I'm alternating arms, I feel them more. I know triceps are affected some at the end of the two arm stroke but they don't get fatigued for me. Alternating arms I really feel them when I focus on lengthening the stroke. I admit I don't pay as much attention to form on the skierg as I do on the rower because the skierg seems much more intuitive to me.
57/5'10"/HWT
500m: 1:36.9/ 2k: 6:59.2 / 5k: 18:53.2 / 30min: 7762 / 10k: 38:57.4 (2020 PBs)

User avatar
Eric308
1k Poster
Posts: 121
Joined: February 22nd, 2007, 8:24 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Weight equivalent on pull down

Post by Eric308 » October 19th, 2020, 5:36 pm

I actually get a huge burn in both triceps with my daily workouts. I start with a 3K, then do about 1/2 hour on upper body machines, free weights, and then 2X100m 25 pound medicine ball carries at pec level. I finish it all off with a 1K sprint on the skierg. Do all this daily. I've lost 2 inches off my waist since March.

User avatar
Ombrax
6k Poster
Posts: 832
Joined: April 20th, 2013, 2:05 am
Location: St Louis, MO, USA

Re: Weight equivalent on pull down

Post by Ombrax » October 19th, 2020, 6:42 pm

Eric308 wrote:
October 19th, 2020, 5:36 pm
Do all this daily
Congratulations on the weight loss.

How does one decide that a given workout is OK for daily exercise vs requiring a rest day between sessions?

User avatar
Eric308
1k Poster
Posts: 121
Joined: February 22nd, 2007, 8:24 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Weight equivalent on pull down

Post by Eric308 » October 19th, 2020, 6:47 pm

That's a great question, and I was actually "fishing" to some degree for a correction or suggestion. The thing is, I feel great doing this routine daily, and have not missed more than a couple of days since March. No muscle pains or aches, sleep well, eat well, and have absolutely no ill effects. I do break up the upper body stuff every couple of weeks. I'm 75, 6" and 185. 35 inch waist. Never smoked, and quit alcohol 2.5 years ago. Please don't tell me to take a day off. :mrgreen:

User avatar
Ombrax
6k Poster
Posts: 832
Joined: April 20th, 2013, 2:05 am
Location: St Louis, MO, USA

Re: Weight equivalent on pull down

Post by Ombrax » October 19th, 2020, 10:32 pm

I'm no exercise expert, but I would say that there are several possible approaches:

1) If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

2) If you can do what you're doing now on an daily basis is there any benefit to sometimes doing more and going harder, but on alternating days?

I'm sure there are tons of research on how to handle this for weightlifting. And structured "plans" like the Pete and Wolverine plan are well-tested for rowing and cardio.

I suppose it depends on your goals and how likely you are to get mentally bored of a routine that's basically the same thing day in, day out.

Finally, I have read that your body will respond better to training that has a number of changes (in both the type and magnitude of the forces) instead of doing the same thing over and over again. For example, Google "exercise movement variability" and you'll see what I mean.

User avatar
hjs
Marathon Poster
Posts: 9356
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 3:18 pm
Location: Amstelveen the netherlands

Re: Weight equivalent on pull down

Post by hjs » October 20th, 2020, 4:21 am

mromero680 wrote:
October 19th, 2020, 4:16 pm
I don't feel the triceps much if I'm using both arms but, if I'm alternating arms, I feel them more. I know triceps are affected some at the end of the two arm stroke but they don't get fatigued for me. Alternating arms I really feel them when I focus on lengthening the stroke. I admit I don't pay as much attention to form on the skierg as I do on the rower because the skierg seems much more intuitive to me.
What pace do you use on the skierg versus de rower, there should not be that much difference. Technique on the skierg is much more straight forward, its one motion, not like the rower where you have to/can use a different style. Skierg is also much less comparable to snow skying, the whole leg push is not possible. No matter what, we are standing still :wink: its not for nothing that the skierg is not used in the skieworld like rowers are in the rowing. You can use an otw stroke close to 100% if you want to. On the skierg you only mimic the trunk push and even this is wrong. Not like on snow backwards, but a vertical move. Making the skierg much more a fitness machine, and far from a ski trainer.
In would say the triceps on the skierg are the biceps on the rower, the are part of link, so no matter what they have to work. But given the arms are relative small, they can’t be the main driver, on the rower the legs are, on the skierg the trunk is.

Allan Olesen
5k Poster
Posts: 543
Joined: April 27th, 2018, 6:40 am

Re: Weight equivalent on pull down

Post by Allan Olesen » October 20th, 2020, 5:03 am

hjs wrote:
October 19th, 2020, 3:57 am

Yep, but its not a tricep puldown, its a combined goodmorning plus upperbody push/pull movement.
I was replying to the question of "weight". I assume that the OP will figure out the equivalent strength training exercise himself.

User avatar
hjs
Marathon Poster
Posts: 9356
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 3:18 pm
Location: Amstelveen the netherlands

Re: Weight equivalent on pull down

Post by hjs » October 20th, 2020, 5:18 am

Allan Olesen wrote:
October 20th, 2020, 5:03 am
hjs wrote:
October 19th, 2020, 3:57 am

Yep, but its not a tricep puldown, its a combined goodmorning plus upperbody push/pull movement.
I was replying to the question of "weight". I assume that the OP will figure out the equivalent strength training exercise himself.
See the openingspost for this thread. “Cable pushdown” and later on only talk about the triceps.

If someone will figure out something himself, we should never bother to answer anything :wink: Which, I must say, is often a very good option.

User avatar
Eric308
1k Poster
Posts: 121
Joined: February 22nd, 2007, 8:24 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Weight equivalent on pull down

Post by Eric308 » October 20th, 2020, 9:24 am

Thank you all for the positive feedback. Heading to the gym, and plan on breaking up my routines a bit. I can't row anymore after over 20 years due to an inguinal hernia. I was lucky to have had the Skierg which I hated at first. I'm #1 in the US (70-79) now for the 1:00 sprint @249m. hjs..please don't think I don't heed your advice. You are my hero on here. Cheers!

Post Reply