Concept2 Forum

Posted: **November 2nd, 2024, 9:42 pm**

Hey gang, this is my first post here! Super excited to have found this forum as I recently got a Ski Erg and am really excited to get to training. Tonight, I did a 1,000m time trial after two separate 250m warmups. My time for the 1,000m was 4:18. I'm a 43-year-old male, pretty untrained at the moment, and just deal with a mild run of COVID.

Any suggestions on where I should go from here? Just ski for a few weeks to build base and form? Or should I tackle a more developed plan? Thanks!

Posted: **November 3rd, 2024, 5:21 am**

Welcome to the forum.

I think you'll find a lot more info on rowing training plans compared to the Skierg, but in general (and especially for beginners) they're quite similar.

For example, check this out on the C2 web site:

https://www.concept2.com/training/plans ... onsistency

One of the most popular rower plans around here is the Beginner's Pete Plan - you'll see tons of threads about it. I don't know if anyone's bothered to do tweak that for the SkiErg. Either way, the link above is probably a good start. You could poke around a bit on the C2 site to see if they have anything else.

Edit: Here's something else I found: https://www.concept2.com/blog/beginners ... ng-program

Good Luck

Posted: **November 3rd, 2024, 8:31 am**

Don't know anything about the Skierg...but general advice for beginners on the rowerg is to spend a while (some weeks?) getting the form right at a fairly lowish pressure before trying to ramp up to greater efforts which is likely to compromise good form. Even once grooved in good form, training typically consists of much more time doing Steady State meters than Time Trials or hard intervals. Having said that, any piece can be erg'd as hard or as soft as you want so if you're just after ideas for different workouts then eg the Beginner Pete Plan or even C2's Workout Of the Day will offer plenty of variety. Just don't go full beans on all of them...

Posted: **November 3rd, 2024, 9:11 am**

It is very much depending on your goals. If you want to get fit and train 3-4 times a week, you can do pretty all what you like.
If you want to achieve specific goals, like a very fast 1k, you definitely need to follow a specific plan.
In both cases, focus on good form first, do as many meters as possible to get familiar with the movement and try to tweak it to the best technique you can achieve. Take videos, compare them to videos from C2 or any proper source for beginner technique tips. Even posting them here (upload to yt or something, post link here) can help to get some tips from others. Some guys here are very familiar with the skierg.

Posted: **November 3rd, 2024, 2:47 pm**

Hello

The average verified times for your age group and males only is 3:55.2 this season,
so I think your time is very impressive given that you are just starting and are getting over Covid

See: https://log.concept2.com/rankings

Maybe that could be your first time to go for, but I agree with others that good form at the start is important, even if the best "style" is a bit more debatable for the SkiErg compared to the RowErg

Good luck anyway

Posted: **November 4th, 2024, 1:37 pm**

prayliftrun wrote: ↑
November 2nd, 2024, 9:42 pm
Hey gang, this is my first post here! Super excited to have found this forum as I recently got a Ski Erg and am really excited to get to training. Tonight, I did a 1,000m time trial after two separate 250m warmups. My time for the 1,000m was 4:18. I'm a 43-year-old male, pretty untrained at the moment, and just deal with a mild run of COVID.

Any suggestions on where I should go from here? Just ski for a few weeks to build base and form? Or should I tackle a more developed plan? Thanks!

Hello Prayliftrun!

It really depends on what you want from SkiErg, like Sakly said, train to be fit or to reach a 1k/2k etc. faster time.
Anyway, for both goals, you should build an aerobic base (not hrs) to keep things going.
As others said, try to learn a good technique, preferably a skiing one or atleast try to copy xcskiers.
You can follow a beginner pete plan to start with but don't follow it on stroke rate, everyone on skierg has his own technique.

Posted: **November 6th, 2024, 3:26 pm**

Welcome to the 'World of Erg'.
Got a SkiErg? you wont regret it.
Got mine during first lockdown. 5.5 million metres so far and loving it.
How to finesse that 1k? if you have the time and inclination check out my journey from the 1k and beyond. Hope it helps.

Employing equal doses of trial and error learning (kinaesthetic) please find below a check list that got me going.
BTW: I make no apologies for the constant reference to a ECG heart rate monitor.
Would you drive a performance car around the track without a rev counter, oil pressure, water temperature and fuel gauges?
Remember NASCAR and F1 cars don't have speedometers! That comes with experience using the gauges.
1) Power-patience-patience , the constant repeating mantra for everything thing you do.
2) Understand 'Drag factor' readings. Vital if you have access to a number of ski ergs.
3) What the Damper setting actually means for YOU. One is not for wimps, ten does not give you the hardest workout.
4) Proper technique is vital. Concept2 site has the guide. Don’t make it up. That stupid 'Michael Phelps’ butterfly trick will destroy your rotator cups in a matter of minutes.
5) Get a chest strap ECG, learn how to connect to PM5. ECG beats PPG every time.
6) Find your fitness level. Resting heart rate is a good start. As long as you are not taking beta blockers or are hypokalemic. Check with doc.
7) Work out your max heart rate for age, sex and fitness level. Be honest. Details below.
8) Calculate your training heart rate BPM zones from four percentages of your max. Detailed below.
9) Create a realistic training schedule(s) specifically for your fitness level. Patience will reward. Dont go Gang Busters from day one.
10) Keep to the schedule and log it online in the C2 Logbook/Ranking site. This data will give you confidence on good days and caution on bad days.

Max heart rate formulas that are with considering, you decide:
FOX: Most common, very basic. Does not take into account age changes to the heart. 220 minus age
GULATI; Women only, Earlier methods tended to overestimate max HR. 206 minus (0.88 × age)
TANAKA: Formulated for those over 40. 208 minus (0.7 × age)
HUNT:For the measurably active. 211 minus (0.64 x age)

For example fit 45 year old male.
211- (0.64x45) = 182. (Round down)
Now calculate 60-70-86-98% of 182BPM to get your HR for these zones.

How I visualise the zones. Performance car track day analogy intentional.
Zone1 60% of max. Relaxing tick-over. Mind focusing and stretch. Stay in pits. Oil warming up and moving around the engine. Check readouts working, oil pressure and temp, water temp, mirrors, seat position etc.
Zone2 70% of max. Gradual build in revs from tick-over to Zone 3 working temperature. Move out on to track one lap to warm up tyres, oil and all engine parts.
Zone3 86% of max. Start training schedule. Controlled rapid build to racing revs, hold steady at Z3 heart rate for duration of planned schedule.
In this zone you will burning fuel at a high rate, 85% carbohydrate, 15% fat 1% protein.
Depending on your fitness level this fuel will keep you going for around 40 mins max.
WARNINg: Keep an eye on the HR readout if it suddenly begins to rise you must lift off the throttle until it returns to Z3 HR.
Z4 98% of max. Uses fuel at a prodigious rate, 1 to 2 mins before the tank empties. Carbs burning at > 90%, engine smoking and producing very high amounts of lattice acid. Great for interval workouts with recovery interval back to Zone 2.

FWIW my baseline activity details.
69 yrs - 76kg - 181cm - RHR 43 BPM.
Since 30yrs old, competing at 10km track running, moving to middle, long and ultra distance as the years went by.
Used the Row erg on and off since 1986 at warm weather training camps.
Stopped running at 65 no point in pushing my luck with the chassis.

Cycling as a break from everything.

Ski-erg this season:
1K. 3:46.9
2K. 7:48.2
5K. 20:22.4
10K. 41:20.5
30min. 7,341m
60min. 14,083m

Posted: **November 8th, 2024, 6:35 am**

Keef wrote: ↑
November 6th, 2024, 3:26 pm
Welcome to the 'World of Erg'.
Got a SkiErg? you wont regret it.
Got mine during first lockdown. 5.5 million metres so far and loving it.
How to finesse that 1k? if you have the time and inclination check out my journey from the 1k and beyond. Hope it helps.

Employing equal doses of trial and error learning (kinaesthetic) please find below a check list that got me going.
BTW: I make no apologies for the constant reference to a ECG heart rate monitor.
Would you drive a performance car around the track without a rev counter, oil pressure, water temperature and fuel gauges?
Remember NASCAR and F1 cars don't have speedometers! That comes with experience using the gauges.
1) Power-patience-patience , the constant repeating mantra for everything thing you do.
2) Understand 'Drag factor' readings. Vital if you have access to a number of ski ergs.
3) What the Damper setting actually means for YOU. One is not for wimps, ten does not give you the hardest workout.
4) Proper technique is vital. Concept2 site has the guide. Don’t make it up. That stupid 'Michael Phelps’ butterfly trick will destroy your rotator cups in a matter of minutes.
5) Get a chest strap ECG, learn how to connect to PM5. ECG beats PPG every time.
6) Find your fitness level. Resting heart rate is a good start. As long as you are not taking beta blockers or are hypokalemic. Check with doc.
7) Work out your max heart rate for age, sex and fitness level. Be honest. Details below.
8) Calculate your training heart rate BPM zones from four percentages of your max. Detailed below.
9) Create a realistic training schedule(s) specifically for your fitness level. Patience will reward. Dont go Gang Busters from day one.
10) Keep to the schedule and log it online in the C2 Logbook/Ranking site. This data will give you confidence on good days and caution on bad days.

Max heart rate formulas that are with considering, you decide:
FOX: Most common, very basic. Does not take into account age changes to the heart. 220 minus age
GULATI; Women only, Earlier methods tended to overestimate max HR. 206 minus (0.88 × age)
TANAKA: Formulated for those over 40. 208 minus (0.7 × age)
HUNT:For the measurably active. 211 minus (0.64 x age)

For example fit 45 year old male.
211- (0.64x45) = 182. (Round down)
Now calculate 60-70-86-98% of 182BPM to get your HR for these zones.

How I visualise the zones. Performance car track day analogy intentional.
Zone1 60% of max. Relaxing tick-over. Mind focusing and stretch. Stay in pits. Oil warming up and moving around the engine. Check readouts working, oil pressure and temp, water temp, mirrors, seat position etc.
Zone2 70% of max. Gradual build in revs from tick-over to Zone 3 working temperature. Move out on to track one lap to warm up tyres, oil and all engine parts.
Zone3 86% of max. Start training schedule. Controlled rapid build to racing revs, hold steady at Z3 heart rate for duration of planned schedule.
In this zone you will burning fuel at a high rate, 85% carbohydrate, 15% fat 1% protein.
Depending on your fitness level this fuel will keep you going for around 40 mins max.
WARNINg: Keep an eye on the HR readout if it suddenly begins to rise you must lift off the throttle until it returns to Z3 HR.
Z4 98% of max. Uses fuel at a prodigious rate, 1 to 2 mins before the tank empties. Carbs burning at > 90%, engine smoking and producing very high amounts of lattice acid. Great for interval workouts with recovery interval back to Zone 2.

FWIW my baseline activity details.
69 yrs - 76kg - 181cm - RHR 43 BPM.
Since 30yrs old, competing at 10km track running, moving to middle, long and ultra distance as the years went by.
Used the Row erg on and off since 1986 at warm weather training camps.
Stopped running at 65 no point in pushing my luck with the chassis.

Cycling as a break from everything.

Ski-erg this season:
1K. 3:46.9
2K. 7:48.2
5K. 20:22.4
10K. 41:20.5
30min. 7,341m
60min. 14,083m

Interesting formulae there re heart rate. Food for thought, because whenever I run, I find it impossible to keep under 90% of what those formulae says is my max - I'd have to walk. On the skierg, I can stay under 90% but not under 80% - otherwise I don't feel like I'm working at all. The onyl training I can keep under those numbers is on the bike.

Posted: **November 9th, 2024, 10:23 pm**

You mentioned you had/have covid?
STOP right there. Please put yourself on hold for the moment. The only thing you should exercise is patience. Tomorrow is another day.
Did you test positive?
How long ago?
If positive, did you perform another test and was it negative?
If it was a positive test and you have had an indicated negative result seven days later, then this may still have an impact on your heart rate. Be aware bacterial infections, dehydration, over-hydration (hyponatremia as deadly as dehydration) caffeine, certain foods, timing of meals pre and post exercise etc etc…can impact your resting heart rate ( RHR) and active HR.
A good idea is to first accurately log your RHR, every day, once in the morning once in the evening. Sitting down relax for ten minutes before each test.
Getting into this habit will help you identify any unexplained peaks and be able to act on them with caution.
It will also enable you create a timeline log that can used to determine your heart rate variability (HRV) , basically a graph over time that shows how you are recovering from training.
BTW ignore the myth that a high variability is a good thing…here we go, the age old bs, no pain no gain! Again driven by influencers and the wearables market.
On the subject of wearables, get yourself a proper ECG HR monitor. Accuracy here is vital. Electrocardiography measures the electrical signals that trigger the expansion and contraction of the heart.
I use a basic vanilla Polar H9 chest strap ECG (electrocardiograph) 99.6% accurate if used correctly, i have made up my own electrode gel from 100ml of aloe vera cream mixed with a half teaspoon of salt. Make sure the area is clean of oil, its a good insulator.
Bluetooth the sensor to the C2 PM5 and you get a hands, free continuous readout. Simple stuff.

Wrist or arm band PPG (photoplethysmography) sensors use leds to sense the rate of blood flow created by the heart’s pumping action.
However i have found them to suddenly go ape for a few minutes, I think this could be an ambient light thing or most likely the effect of the arm muscles while rowing or skiing on localised blood flow in the arm? maybe changing the blood vessel size? i dunno. what do i know.

So, take it easy , have patience, see this new stage in your life as seven year project. Something to look forward to for your ‘big 50’ !

I have left the explanation of why I may come over rather self opinionated, I do have a personal experience of what can happen if one is a little too eager.
In my early 30s i lost a good friend, training buddy and on race day, a competitor. You get know somebody really well running thru heat, wind rain and snow for 3-4 hours at a time.
He had gone down with a cold, a week later he struggled out on short runs but was determined to ‘run it out of the system’. Its what we all did at the time. However this time his luck ran out. Not wanting to hold me back he went out for run on his own, he never made it back. weeks later the coroners report showed the viral infection had attacked the muscles of his heart and died from myocarditis.

Stay safe and remember stopping, saying to yourself ‘nope, not today’ turning around , back thru the door is mentally harder than keeping going.
Its takes training, but once you master it the good days get better and better.
Tomorrow is another day.

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