Statins

General discussions about getting and staying fit that don't relate directly to your indoor rower
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jackarabit
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Re: Statins

Post by jackarabit » January 13th, 2020, 10:43 pm

Vet this: https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/mood- ... whats-link

Research done at UC San Diego. Not click bait, Brit or domestic! On the physio side, I have reason to respect the damage that Atorvastatin taken long term is capable of.
There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

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sekitori
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Re: Statins

Post by sekitori » January 14th, 2020, 1:09 am

jackarabit wrote:
January 13th, 2020, 10:43 pm
Vet this: https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/mood- ... whats-link

Research done at UC San Diego. Not click bait, Brit or domestic! On the physio side, I have reason to respect the damage that Atorvastatin taken long term is capable of.
That's ony one study. Show me a lot more of them that agree with it.

The primary cause of death in the world is ischemic heart disease. Statins have gone a long way in preventing it. If mood changes reallly are related to statins, how severe are they in each individual case? I'm sure that if those changes are mild, most physicians will opt for use of the medication that has been proven to reduce LDL and total cholesterol levels, keeping their patients alive a lot longer. If on the other hand, statins do produce fairly severe emotional side effects, they should be handled the same way muscle pain and other side effects are. Either reduce the dosage, change to another statin, or drop their use completely.

The worst thing someone can do is stop or not even begin taking a medication of great value because it could possibly cause problems--even if those problems don't currently appear and may never show up.

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Re: Statins

Post by rorono » January 14th, 2020, 4:32 am

I appreciate a "healthy" debate about risks/benefits of Statins. Lesser reported side effects, I discovered the hard way, include Necrotizing Autoimmune Myopathy, a chronic disorder which went on for years before being recognized and treated as more than arthritis, vitamin D deficiency and/or other of the indignities of age in a complaintive old man. In a small percentage of cases it can be associated with other autoimmune disorders, including Myasthenia Gravis, another fun diagnosis with different mechanism of action, but added to the initial muscle loss can be, day to day, anything from irritating to disabling to life threatening. I would note that there are options to statins and, accepting that all cases are different, for me Repatha dropped my numbers by half without the muscle issues associated with 4 challenges with 3 Statins, and 2 other common cholesterol lowering drugs. Please understand I'm not trying to second guess anyone or their doctor but if your symptoms don't go away with Statin withdrawal, or even get worse, it might be worth a chat about diagnosis (2 positive antibody tests in my case) and management, additional to the usual prescribed and OTC meds, diet, and exercise.
The good news is that my boys, both into working out, bullied me into buying a Concept 2. This was more than acceptable to my new diagnosing family doctor and neurologist and I find that the no impact, sitting, quiet enough to listen to my music, chose time and intensity and to some extent the muscle groups that decide to function that day, and reassuringly short distance to the floor if one drops, makes exercise, within my personal limits, quite pleasant.

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Eric308
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Re: Statins

Post by Eric308 » January 14th, 2020, 9:45 am

Statins have definitely affected my mood in a good way. I am relieved that I've maintained a safe total cholesterol in the 130 range for the 12+ years I've taken them. Back in 2008 my total cholesterol reading was 230. As mentioned, I've experienced no side effects of any kind. I'll also add that my board certified cardiologist with 40 years experience says the same thing as sekitori above.

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jackarabit
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Re: Statins

Post by jackarabit » January 14th, 2020, 3:12 pm

The primary cause of death in the world is ischemic heart disease.
But not the ONLY cause certainly. There are a number of challenges to health, independence, physical and mental competence that are worse than death. I provide a link to a study that suggests a downside to statin use. If further evidence supporting this view is desired, seek it out on your dime and on your time.
There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

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sekitori
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Re: Statins

Post by sekitori » January 14th, 2020, 3:36 pm

jackarabit wrote:
January 14th, 2020, 3:12 pm
The primary cause of death in the world is ischemic heart disease.
But not the ONLY cause certainly. There are a number of challenges to health, independence, physical and mental competence that are worse than death. I provide a link to a study that suggests a downside to statin use. If further evidence supporting this view is desired, seek it out on your dime and on your time.
If there is further evidence supporting the view that statins have possibly severe emotional side effects and that those effects are fairly common, one should not have to go out of his or her way to seek it out. I'm sure the Internet would be flooded with such information. Except for this single study, I haven't seen any.

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Re: Statins

Post by tm3 » January 14th, 2020, 8:26 pm

Parky wrote:
January 7th, 2020, 3:34 pm
After being told I had to take statins for high cholesterol tried them for 2 weeks and my times for the 2K dropped by over a minute. My limbs were aching, joints creasing me and I developed a dry cough.

I stopped taking them, and almost immediately times were back on my old target time. I'm no athlete, but as I didn't want to become a geriatric, stopping them seems to be the best course of action.

I had tried the statins previously ( a different brand), and they had had the same effect on me. The doc has me down as statin intolerant on my records, and I have notified this new doc I have stopped.

This is NOT a cry for help, but I am curious as to whether any other geriatrics are in the same boat as me. :|
Statins are relatively safe drugs with low risk of side effects. However, if you are the one with the side effects what the incidence in the overall population is becomes moot.

Sometimes changing to another statin will eliminate the muscle aches, and there are multiple different ones that can be tried.

I don't know the guidelines in the UK but you might want to compute your risk based on your current numbers and compare to the risk based on the hypothetical lowering that a statin could achieve. If they are close, you may want to forgo the treatment.

https://ccs.ca/images/Guidelines/Tools_ ... 7_fnl1.pdf

There is some element of guesswork involved. Most people that have heart attacks have normal cholesterol. Statins have proven to prolong life only in patients with known coronary artery disease; prolongation of life in others is assumed by inference.

Another option would be to have a coronary calcium CT scan to look for evidence of coronary artery disease. If you have zero, skip the statin. Repeat the CT every 10 years or so.

Another approach would be to heed what a cardiologist once told me: "You now have the opportunity to start a simple drug therapy that can potentially have a major impact on your longevity and quality of life. Why not do it?"

Coronary artery disease is significant, common, and best avoided.

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Re: Statins

Post by sekitori » January 14th, 2020, 9:29 pm

tm3 wrote:
January 14th, 2020, 8:26 pm

Most people that have heart attacks have normal cholesterol.
I doubt that "most" people who have heart attacks have normal cholesterol. But I am also quite sure that quite a large percentage of them do. The reason is that while taking a statin may be of value in reducing the risk of coronary disease, other factors can have severe impact in increasing it. They include smoking, high blood pressure, poor nutrition resulting in excess weight and obesity, and lack of physical activity. Combined with environmental factors and genetics, any or all of them can be a good reason why people without elevated cholesterol have cardiac problems. Statins are far from a cure-all. I believe that someone whose so-called action to prevent heart disease is doing nothing more than taking a pill is a walking time bomb. If any of the other negative factors (other than genetics) are ignored, it eventually can go off. As for genetics, even those who are at risk of coronary disease can decrease it with a healthy life style

Taking a statin is simply an adjunct to such a life style but it can be an important one. If people take care of their bodies properly and in addition can tolerate one that has minimal or no side effects, it can be added insurance against coronary heart disease--one that should at least be strongly considered.

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jackarabit
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Re: Statins

Post by jackarabit » January 15th, 2020, 12:27 am

⬆️ Third restatement of the obvious by this querulous defender of the statins quo. Good luck to the OP and keep us in the loop on the effectiveness of the probiotic alternative, by PM if necessary.
There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

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Re: Statins

Post by T_M » January 15th, 2020, 1:32 pm

LOL @ "Statins quo"...priceless!
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Parky
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Re: Statins

Post by Parky » January 16th, 2020, 11:14 am

I'm now on a low dosage of Rosuvastatin. Only the first day today, butstill feeling good. Managed a 5k today, plus a short session on the ski erg and 5k on the bike. No ill effects as yet, but I didn't expect any.

As for them not affecting mood, all I can say to that is BOL***#S. :wink: :wink:
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tm3
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Re: Statins

Post by tm3 » January 16th, 2020, 1:46 pm

Parky wrote:
January 16th, 2020, 11:14 am
I'm now on a low dosage of Rosuvastatin. Only the first day today, butstill feeling good. Managed a 5k today, plus a short session on the ski erg and 5k on the bike. No ill effects as yet, but I didn't expect any.

As for them not affecting mood, all I can say to that is BOL***#S. :wink: :wink:
I've been on that one for over 10 years, 5mg daily. It has worked great for me and I hope it works well for you!

Now, please tell me what med I need to take to match your 3 5k workouts in one day! :D

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Parky
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Re: Statins

Post by Parky » January 18th, 2020, 7:01 pm

tm3 wrote:
January 16th, 2020, 1:46 pm
Now, please tell me what med I need to take to match your 3 5k workouts in one day! :D
Where?

I usually manage one, plus a short ski-erg for a warm up, unless I've slipped up on back-dating entry dates. (Tell me what dates and I'll check)

The statins seem OK - for now, but I've only taken 2. Doc says 1 every 2 days for a week, up to 1per day for 2nd week the 2 a day thereafter. I'll see how it goes.
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Parky
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Re: Statins

Post by Parky » February 3rd, 2020, 8:55 pm

On the 3rd week of the statins now and I'm suffering from a dry, racking cough, not getting the sleep I need, and aching like hell.
I've had no Chinese food, so no likelihood of Corona Virus, so I guess it's back on the old inhaler for now.
I'll persist with the statins for the first month's course and see how I feel then.

(It's not the coughing you worry about, it's the coffin they carry you off in) :roll: :roll:
Hwt M - 74yrs - 17st 4lbs

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Re: Statins

Post by 8sWwr2 » February 4th, 2020, 3:20 pm


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