Aerobic training phase

General discussions about getting and staying fit that don't relate directly to your indoor rower
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vepjan
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Aerobic training phase

Post by vepjan » May 21st, 2018, 10:42 pm

I am interested in knowing what others do and if there are any scientific references for this or other approaches. I do about 40 mins of steady state rowing each day at around 70-75% of heart rate reserve. It does not bore me and it always leaves me feeling tired but oddly refreshed. My questions are:

1) This is an aerobic building phase. How long should it be to achieve sufficient aerobic improvements and before I start building for pace?
2) Should I add some high intensity/anaerobic sessions each week during the whole phase or would that be counter productive for building aerobic capacity?
3) After building aerobic endurance and pace, does one repeat the cycle or is there a better way to keep improving both aerobic endurance/pace?

Training theories keep changing so I am wondering what is the state of the art or your favorite proven approach.

Allan Olesen
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Re: Aerobic training phase

Post by Allan Olesen » May 22nd, 2018, 12:36 am

I have mostly been looking at aerobic run training. And my sources have not been very scientific. Perhaps you already know all this, but anyway:

Among the runners who do low heart rate training, a quite common approach seems to be:
  • In the beginning do a lot of aerobic stuff.
  • Keep track of the relation between your heart rate and your running pace. The faster pace you can run at a given, low heart rate, the better your aerobic fitness is.
  • As long as you increase your aerobic fitness measured by pace and heart rate, stick to the aerobic stuff.
  • When your aerobic fitness reaches a plateau, mix in some high intensity running, but not more than 10-20% of weekly volume.
  • When doing the other 80-90% of the weekly volume which are still aerobic, continue keeping track of the relation between your heart rate and your running pace.
  • If your heart rate and pace show a drop in aerobic fitness, cut back on the high intensity training.
The idea behind this is that as long as you still have a weak aerobic base, it allegedly only takes a small amount of high intensity training to delay or set back your aerobic development for weeks. But an athlete who already have build a good aerobic base, can take on a reasonable amount of high intensity training without aerobic setbacks.

Please note that some of these runners might not consider your 70-75% HRR real aerobic training. They go even lower. I am at around 55-60% HRR myself (but not a very experienced runner, so I can't really say that my HRR interval is "proven", though I have seen a rather incredible aerobic development during the 4-5 months I have stuck to this approach). I think that rowers generally row at higher heart rates, judging from what I have seen in these forums.

jamesg
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Re: Aerobic training phase

Post by jamesg » May 22nd, 2018, 1:10 am

Endurance develops together with technique, flexibility and strength, if we use them. It takes about a year of paddling (18-23), during which we develop the stroke and so increase power output at any given rating.

In schedules for racing, the higher aerobic ratings (24-28) start halfway through the routine, if not sooner. The Interactive plans show this progression. There are hundreds to choose from. http://indoorsportservices.co.uk/training/interactive

The fast work (up to 40) starts close to race date, when we put the finishing touches to high-rating technique, with very short pieces. Practicing starts is fun but can be chaotic, which is why it has to be done. It's quick, a minute is enough, so we see the transition to race rate.
77y, 188cm, 85kg, MHR 160. Last 2k (May 1018) 8.37@23

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hjs
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Re: Aerobic training phase

Post by hjs » May 22nd, 2018, 2:23 am

vepjan wrote:I am interested in knowing what others do and if there are any scientific references for this or other approaches. I do about 40 mins of steady state rowing each day at around 70-75% of heart rate reserve. It does not bore me and it always leaves me feeling tired but oddly refreshed. My questions are:

1) This is an aerobic building phase. How long should it be to achieve sufficient aerobic improvements and before I start building for pace?
2) Should I add some high intensity/anaerobic sessions each week during the whole phase or would that be counter productive for building aerobic capacity?
3) After building aerobic endurance and pace, does one repeat the cycle or is there a better way to keep improving both aerobic endurance/pace?

Training theories keep changing so I am wondering what is the state of the art or your favorite proven approach.
1 pace should (slowly) improve, if not you build nothing. Talking about the same hf.
2 not if you have no races coming up soon. Aerobic and anaerobic training interfere with eachother.
3 Aerobic sports, like like rowing should always keep on building fitness. After a peaking fase aerobic fitness will have hone down.
For my training see twitter @Hjsrowing

vepjan
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Re: Aerobic training phase

Post by vepjan » May 22nd, 2018, 10:37 am

Allan: Very helpful answer! (Tak for det). I will stick with what I am doing. I think the higher heart rate for rowing comes from the power aspect that running does not have. If I decrease intensity I will either have to do weaker strokes or decrease rate. A weaker stroke is not desirable (or am I missing something?). Also, I am already rowing at 18-20 SPM so no chance of going much lower. These comments probably just highlight how weak my aerobic base is right now. With that in mind, learning from what runners do is probably a good idea.

Jamesg and hjs: Thank you for the answers. I have no races soon, so I will stick with the aerobic stuff.

One question though: How does weight training fit in? Does that also impact aerobic fitness negatively?

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hjs
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Re: Aerobic training phase

Post by hjs » May 22nd, 2018, 10:52 am

vepjan wrote:
One question though: How does weight training fit in? Does that also impact aerobic fitness negatively?
In my view yes, upperbody weights not do much, but serious squats/deadlifts inpact the days after. And work the fast muscle fibers. I do train both, never tried to really periodize both.
For my training see twitter @Hjsrowing

bob01
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Re: Aerobic training phase

Post by bob01 » May 23rd, 2018, 11:18 am

Weights ... every time I row I always do something to work the bits missed by rowing.... various press-ups /bench and shoulder pushing and pulling!etc. I also do weights that compliment the rowing action.... deadlift ...leg press (sometimes explosively) vertical jumps and adaptive bent over rowing - knees slightly bent as I lift I straighten the legs and unflex hips slightly ( there is a name for this lift) Kb swings followed by 3 x 30 secs on 2.00m and repeat a couple of times

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