Pain / Cramping feeling around kidneys after 30min of rowing

[SilverStreak]

Hey,

A bit of a backstory - I'm pretty new to rowing and also terribly out of shape due to years of sedentary lifestyle. I'm 35 years old. Size-wise I'm a bit on the tall side, being around 210cm (that'd be like... 6'10''?) but normally proportioned. I weigh around 128 kg which is somewhere around 280 lbs. I've been going to the gym since last October roughly 3-4 times a week and I usually do an 2 km (sometimes 4-5km if I've the time) warmup with a C2 rower erg at 7:30-8:00 pace. I usually have a single cardio day per week when I do solely cardio related exercises, usually 60 mins on an exercise bike and 30+ mins on the rower, not necessarily in that order.

Usually around 25 minute mark on the rower I can feel my back starting to cramp somewhere between my kidneys and lower tip of the shoulder blades. It's not a full blown cramp that'd force me quit - it's more a slow, cramp-like feeling that's more of an annoyance than anything serious. It's just bloody annoying and tends to mess my proper rowing form due to me unconciously shifting my position all the time to make the feeling ease. After I get off the rower, the feeling passes quite quickly.

Is my back simply unused to rowing and the cramp/pain will ease with time as my muscles get used to this kind of strain? Is there anything I could do to help the process? I already do mobility training and stretch properly after strength sessions. According to my PT my rowing form is good and I trust his opinion as he seems quite a knowledgeable and down to earth fella.

One of the issues I think I might have with the Concept 2 rower (I think the gym has has the PM5 model) is that due to my height (and my long back) I tend to have more vertical movement in a stroke than someone more down to earth. Also the sled rail is not quite long enough as I tend to bang the sled to the back of the rail when fully extended if not careful...

I can easily do 2km around 7:15, 5km at 19:30, 10km at sub-40 and today was the first time I rowed for and hour, hitting 14 736 meters when the time ran out. I had to stop for a minute around 45 min mark to stretch my back a bit. I usually row at the max damper setting.

[jamesg]

I tend to bang the sled to the back of the rail when fully extended if not careful...
I usually row at the max damper setting.

It will do no harm to correct these two points: longer rail (C2 can do?) and check for drag factor around 120-130.

Settling in to a relaxed easy long slow rowing style will probably sort you out. No need to work hard while learning to row, style comes first, since it lets us use the right muscles and makes hard work easy with no risks.

Indicators as to form are the rating used (spm) and the handle path during the recovery. You should not need to lift the handle over the knees. If you do, swing forward first, then slide, keeping the back straight. This sequence ensures that external work is done by knees and hips, not the back and shoulders.

14.7 km/h is 180 W which is enough to keep you fit, but quite hefty for a beginner who maybe still has to learn to row. Also, 90' cardio all in one day looks a lot, but is not enough. Better 3 or 4 (days) x 30-40', or follow the endurance part of some rowing schedule such as one of the many Interactives. Or just do what fishermen and watermen did: row a long way every day, but in no hurry.

[hjs]

Re Height, there are longer rails for guys like you. The vertical component is difficult to alter, the chain goes like it goes.

Re cramping, think its mostly a matter of untrainedness and possibly wrong technique, if you can,t use yours legs fully, its likely you overuse your upperbody?

Given your build you should be able to do very well. Ask c2 about the extra rail. Film yourself and look at your stroke. Can,t be 100% ok given your rail limitation.

[Tenshuu]

I think the cramping\tightness below the tip of the shoulder blades could definitely be a result of the damper being at maximum, especially after seeing the different PBs you have set. You're a big strong guy, and I think you're putting more stress into your back on the finish, when a lot of that power should be generated in the legs (which may feel difficult because you run out of rail at the end of your drive).

Something else to keep in mind with the maximum resistance on the damper - since you're a tall dude, the stresses of that resistance against your lower back are going to be more excessive than the same stresses on a 6 foot guy.
When you act like a hinge at the hips, all of that resistance is focused at your lower back near the fulcrum.

Like mentioned above, probably a drag factor of 130ish will feel better - you'll find the flywheel spins a little more freely on your recovery, giving you a little longer on the recovery before you catch and spin the wheel back to speed.



Do you train at the gym or do you have C2 access at home?

Concept has a page addressing drive length:
https://www.concept2.com/service/indoor ... -end-track

If you can adjust the seat a little, you might get the range you need, if not, they said you can contact them for an extended rail.

Happy erging!

[Dangerscouse]

I wonder if it's due to muscle tightness. Do you do a desk job, work at a computer, and drive a lot?

I found a couple of sports massages and a foam roller / spiky physio ball were great to release muscle tension / knotted muscles. I also got tightening from about 40 mins so it sounds similar to my issue, but it was tightness in the inner middle back, probably right at the end of the lower traps

[SilverStreak]

Thanks for replies.

I wonder if it's due to muscle tightness. Do you do a desk job, work at a computer, and drive a lot?

Highly probable. I work a desk job. I do get to walk around the office a lot and alternate between standing and using a saddle chair but I probably still clock plenty enough hours hammering away at the keyboard. My shoulders and upper back have gotten more mobile with exercise but there's still a lot of room for improvement.

I think the cramping\tightness below the tip of the shoulder blades could definitely be a result of the damper being at maximum, especially after seeing the different PBs you have set. You're a big strong guy, and I think you're putting more stress into your back on the finish, when a lot of that power should be generated in the legs (which may feel difficult because you run out of rail at the end of your drive).

Something else to keep in mind with the maximum resistance on the damper - since you're a tall dude, the stresses of that resistance against your lower back are going to be more excessive than the same stresses on a 6 foot guy.
When you act like a hinge at the hips, all of that resistance is focused at your lower back near the fulcrum.

Like mentioned above, probably a drag factor of 130ish will feel better - you'll find the flywheel spins a little more freely on your recovery, giving you a little longer on the recovery before you catch and spin the wheel back to speed.

Do you train at the gym or do you have C2 access at home?

I don't run out of rail if I'm careful but I'm probably doing more work with my upper back as a result. I'd probably drive backwards more with my legs if I didn't need to watch out for hitting the back of the rail.

Unfortunately I don't have an erg at home, I need to rely on going to the gym to use one. I'll probably get one once I move apartments, my current place it a bit crowded.

I'll need to do test run at my usual pace to check the drag factor. I did check it earlier and I recall it might have been somewhere around 170/180 but I might be completely wrong here. The problem is that it feels like I'm not doing any work at all if I've the damper set to anything significantly lower than the max. I haven't done a long run with lower damper setting, I need to give it a try.

[Tenshuu]

Thanks for replies.

I wonder if it's due to muscle tightness. Do you do a desk job, work at a computer, and drive a lot?

Highly probable. I work a desk job. I do get to walk around the office a lot and alternate between standing and using a saddle chair but I probably still clock plenty enough hours hammering away at the keyboard. My shoulders and upper back have gotten more mobile with exercise but there's still a lot of room for improvement.

I think the cramping\tightness below the tip of the shoulder blades could definitely be a result of the damper being at maximum, especially after seeing the different PBs you have set. You're a big strong guy, and I think you're putting more stress into your back on the finish, when a lot of that power should be generated in the legs (which may feel difficult because you run out of rail at the end of your drive).

Something else to keep in mind with the maximum resistance on the damper - since you're a tall dude, the stresses of that resistance against your lower back are going to be more excessive than the same stresses on a 6 foot guy.
When you act like a hinge at the hips, all of that resistance is focused at your lower back near the fulcrum.

Like mentioned above, probably a drag factor of 130ish will feel better - you'll find the flywheel spins a little more freely on your recovery, giving you a little longer on the recovery before you catch and spin the wheel back to speed.

Do you train at the gym or do you have C2 access at home?

I don't run out of rail if I'm careful but I'm probably doing more work with my upper back as a result. I'd probably drive backwards more with my legs if I didn't need to watch out for hitting the back of the rail.

Unfortunately I don't have an erg at home, I need to rely on going to the gym to use one. I'll probably get one once I move apartments, my current place it a bit crowded.

I'll need to do test run at my usual pace to check the drag factor. I did check it earlier and I recall it might have been somewhere around 170/180 but I might be completely wrong here. The problem is that it feels like I'm not doing any work at all if I've the damper set to anything significantly lower than the max. I haven't done a long run with lower damper setting, I need to give it a try.

That extended rail might be a backburner item then =(.

170-180 DF sounds about right at maximum damper setting on a used gym machine
You'll definitely get a good workout at the lower damper settings. For the longest time i went at 135 drag factor. After my first 1 hour session at that, my back was toasted a lot more than I liked - and I've got a solid foundation of back strength all around - granted I was a bit undertrained for that session, it still felt unreasonably taxing on my lower back.

Now I do my sessions at 100 drag factor, but I may move up to 115-120 soon to play around with the feel in that range. I do enjoy the difference at 100 drag factor, and I still get muscle soreness and feel like I got a great workout by the end.

[Dangerscouse]

Try reverse plank stretches and thoracic stretches. Sitting at a desk for hours causes mid back issues.

In my experience drag made no difference at all for muscle tightness and this is when I was doing my ultra distances so I was rowing for hours and the only thing that helped was two hard sports massages and then foam rolling from then on.

[SilverStreak]

I did a quick test with damper settings and drag factor. At my usual pace at max damper the drag factor was around 185-190. Lowering the damper to 5 and keeping SPM at roughly the same level (~28-30) dropped the drag factor to 125-130 but made the rowing feel weird in a bad way. It feels like I'm not doing anything for the first half of the stroke and only getting some resistance towards the end. At high damper settings the resistance feels more constant throughout the stroke. I only did 10 minutes on the lower damper setting but it felt like it was worse for my back than the higher settings.

[jamesg]

It feels like I'm not doing anything for the first half of the stroke and only getting some resistance towards the end

This is the problem. It means you are taking the catch with your back (slow), not the legs (fast). You have to change that.

Try taking one long stroke at a time, waiting til the flywheel almost stops before taking the next.

Training is done by pulling few good strokes, not lots of bad ones:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf84O5cTWY4

See also the C2 technique video.

[SilverStreak]

It feels like I'm not doing anything for the first half of the stroke and only getting some resistance towards the end

This is the problem. It means you are taking the catch with your back (slow), not the legs (fast). You have to change that.

Try taking one long stroke at a time, waiting til the flywheel almost stops before taking the next.

Training is done by pulling few good strokes, not lots of bad ones:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf84O5cTWY4

See also the C2 technique video.

Thanks, will do.