Marathon?? Anyone attempting it.

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Carl Watts
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Re: Marathon?? Anyone attempting it.

Post by Carl Watts » April 29th, 2016, 1:20 am

The FM is a long row and you put in a lot of effort and to fail before the finish is a really big disappointment so you need to choose the pace carefully and your better off just to finish, especially on the first one you try. Just a second on your 500m pace can make all the difference. What makes it hard is that at the beginning it feels really easy !!! don't be fooled it gets harder and the last hour can be a killer.

I don't recommend taking a break, it totally stuffs your time. had to get off during mine when the doorbell rang and the Courier arrived. Spent the next hour catching up the guy that was rowing at my pace online, its very very hard even making up 60 seconds when you can only get a second or so back every 500m.
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remisture
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Re: Marathon?? Anyone attempting it.

Post by remisture » April 29th, 2016, 3:20 am

Is HM+5 secs really doable, or was that just an example? Because for me, that sounds impossible :shock: I was actually thinking going for HM+9-10 next time, which puts me around 1:59-2:00 pace.
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hjs
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Re: Marathon?? Anyone attempting it.

Post by hjs » April 29th, 2016, 4:33 am

remisture wrote:Is HM+5 secs really doable, or was that just an example? Because for me, that sounds impossible :shock: I was actually thinking going for HM+9-10 next time, which puts me around 1:59-2:00 pace.
Very doable, even hm plus 3 for some. WR is 141/42 ish. Dave williams age 48 pulls 1.45 on the fm, with a 6.14 2k A base. You simply need to be very aerobicly trained and ofcourse have the talent.

If you pull 1.59 ish, I would be very little impressed, don,t get me wrong, but really thats very doable for a 6.30 erger.
For my training see twitter @Hjsrowing

Bloodbuzz Corio
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Re: Marathon?? Anyone attempting it.

Post by Bloodbuzz Corio » April 29th, 2016, 4:46 am

Remi,

I've seen a couple of estimates of FM pace - though neither based on HM pace - and not necessarily applicable to someone with your relative strengths.

http://indoorsportservices.co.uk/traini ... thon_intro says to take the difference between 5k pace and 10k pace, add that to your 10k pace to get your HM pace and add double it to get your FM pace.

Excuse me if my maths are wrong but looking at your signature you appear to have a pace of:
  • 1:42.6 for 5k
  • 1:48.6 for 10k
  • 1:50.4 for HM
So you've already proved that link may not apply to you by having a much smaller gap between 10k and HM pace than between 5k and 10k pace (but if you did apply their formula you'd be looking at 2:00.6 - about what you've suggested)

The downloadable guide at http://indoorsportservices.co.uk/training/marathon says '60-70% of 2000 m power in watts – closer to 65% or slightly below for the majority' and 65% based on your 2k pace would be a fairly brisk 1:52.4!

Applying the first of those approaches to my times would give an HM pace of 2:03.7 and a FM pace of 2:07.8 (scary!), and the second an HM pace of 2:08.7 (still scary!). Having said that, the first link is also based on a 24 week training program of either 80k or 110k a week - way way more than I currently do. Certainly expect my first FM to be in the '42,195 across a few intervals' type. :D
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remisture
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Re: Marathon?? Anyone attempting it.

Post by remisture » April 29th, 2016, 6:01 am

hjs wrote:If you pull 1.59 ish, I would be very little impressed, don,t get me wrong, but really thats very doable for a 6.30 erger.
Hehe, I see your point. 1:59 should be fairly easy, at least physically. Not sure about the mental part, tho. I might need to up my weekly load a bit to get used to such long pieces. Been doing approx. 30 km a week in average this season (+ weights/Crossfit), but thats nothing compared to you guys in here :)
Bloodbuzz Corio wrote:Excuse me if my maths are wrong but looking at your signature you appear to have a pace of:
  • 1:42.6 for 5k
  • 1:48.6 for 10k
  • 1:50.4 for HM
Thanks for the thorough analysis, Rohan. My first thought is my 5k and HM times are better than the 10k. They were both max efforts, but the 10k was set during the HM, so I should be able to shave off a second or two on the split. I just need to find the motivation to do a 10k test :lol:

That being said, since my HM is a 100% effort result, I'm thinking more HM+10 than HM+5 for the FM. Dont want to hit the wall at 30 km again (happened two times already :D). I think setting a race plan for a "good" time is easier if I first complete a FM :wink:
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hjs
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Re: Marathon?? Anyone attempting it.

Post by hjs » April 29th, 2016, 7:10 am

If you pull your times on only 30k a week you are doing great. A fm on those meters will proberbly be a tough task. You could simply try a longer session per week, just by feel and see how you get along.
You need a cook place and you need to be anle to sit long enough. Glutes ate not seldom the weak link during long work.
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jackarabit
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Re: Marathon?? Anyone attempting it.

Post by jackarabit » April 29th, 2016, 9:42 am

Here's a direct link to the ISS UK HM and FM predictor from 5k pace:

http://indoorsportservices.co.uk/traini ... athon_pace
There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

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remisture
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Re: Marathon?? Anyone attempting it.

Post by remisture » April 29th, 2016, 9:49 am

Thank you!
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Bloodbuzz Corio
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Re: Marathon?? Anyone attempting it.

Post by Bloodbuzz Corio » April 29th, 2016, 11:15 am

There's also the Free Spirits pace predictor which gives you predictions across all distances from any pair of PBs

http://www.freespiritsrowing.com/conten ... predictor/
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Re: Marathon?? Anyone attempting it.

Post by b12bandit » April 29th, 2016, 3:53 pm

I've done several FM's (a long time ago!). Super slow and steady. Never really tried to push it. PB was around 3hrs 15min.
Also did a 50k, with breaks at 20 and 40. That was hard. As several have already pointed out, it's difficult not to go off too fast, and the last hour is a killer. More mentally than physically. Just grinding out the kms is as much a test of will power as muscle power.
After a long break from rowing and the gym, I'm trying to get back in the groove with some distance work - I was always more tortoise than hare.
Good luck with your FM attempt. Don't rush it.

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Carl Watts
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Re: Marathon?? Anyone attempting it.

Post by Carl Watts » April 29th, 2016, 10:45 pm

I think you need to remember the FM is a totally different animal to complete. You could even have a very fast 2K and you will still not get there to the finish line. You experience all sorts of issues that simply don't come up in the shorter events from dehydration to cramps, sore backside the list goes on. A FM runner doesn't look anything like a 100M sprinter and there is a reason for that, it takes something different to complete a FM. Basically you have no idea how hard one of these is until you try it. You need to be able to bash out a series HM with no effort to the point when you finish you feel like you could do another one straight away, thats about as close to being "Ready" as your going to get. Don't underestimate how hard it is to get even a half way decent time. I had the WORST immediate both legs fully cramped after the finish as soon as my feet came out and touched the ground, it was agony. As others have mentioned the last hour is the one you need to be mentally prepared for you need to be able to continue to row through PAIN.
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lindsayh
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Re: Marathon?? Anyone attempting it.

Post by lindsayh » April 30th, 2016, 1:31 am

hjs wrote:Very doable, even hm plus 3 for some. WR is 141/42 ish. Dave williams age 48 pulls 1.45 on the fm, with a 6.14 2k A base. You simply need to be very aerobicly trained and ofcourse have the talent.
If you pull 1.59 ish, I would be very little impressed, don,t get me wrong, but really thats very doable for a 6.30 erger.
FWIW Dave has a 1:12.55 HM and a 2:28 FM this season which I think is about 1:42 and 1:45 pace
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hjs
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Re: Marathon?? Anyone attempting it.

Post by hjs » April 30th, 2016, 4:01 am

Carl Watts wrote:I think you need to remember the FM is a totally different animal to complete. You could even have a very fast 2K and you will still not get there to the finish line. You experience all sorts of issues that simply don't come up in the shorter events from dehydration to cramps, sore backside the list goes on. A FM runner doesn't look anything like a 100M sprinter and there is a reason for that, it takes something different to complete a FM. Basically you have no idea how hard one of these is until you try it. You need to be able to bash out a series HM with no effort to the point when you finish you feel like you could do another one straight away, thats about as close to being "Ready" as your going to get. Don't underestimate how hard it is to get even a half way decent time. I had the WORST immediate both legs fully cramped after the finish as soon as my feet came out and touched the ground, it was agony. As others have mentioned the last hour is the one you need to be mentally prepared for you need to be able to continue to row through PAIN.
100 meter versus 2k? 10 seconds versus 6/7 min, very strange and wrong comparison. Every serious erging can row a fm, because he does a lot of aerobic training. A 100 meter runner does zero and will never ever run a marathon.
For my training see twitter @Hjsrowing

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remisture
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Re: Marathon?? Anyone attempting it.

Post by remisture » April 30th, 2016, 10:35 am

I know a couple of guys that pull 6:15-25 WITHOUT any distance work at all (just crossfit), but i really doubt they could do a FM with sub 2:00 splits, so I dont think 2k times are good measurements for FM.
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hjs
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Re: Marathon?? Anyone attempting it.

Post by hjs » April 30th, 2016, 11:11 am

remisture wrote:I know a couple of guys that pull 6:15-25 WITHOUT any distance work at all (just crossfit), but i really doubt they could do a FM with sub 2:00 splits, so I dont think 2k times are good measurements for FM.
Not directly no, but crossfitters do a lot of stuff, not just short, so they do endurance work.
For my training see twitter @Hjsrowing

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