Weight adjustment

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rowingg
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Weight adjustment

Post by rowingg » January 14th, 2019, 5:59 pm

Hello! From your experience, do pretty much the same weight adjustment principles work for the scores achieved on the BikeErg as on the regular rowing ergometer? That is, would heavier athletes also have an advantage or is it less so on the BikeErg?

Thanks!

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Ombrax
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Re: Weight adjustment

Post by Ombrax » January 14th, 2019, 10:10 pm

I'm guessing that because cycling and rowing are different when it comes to how heavier folks are affected "in real life" the adjustments of the machine vs real life for that would also be different. IRL a hilly course has a large negative impact on heavier riders, but the bike erg doesn't reflect that. IRL a heavier rower in the boat has a negative impact on drag, and thus boat speed, and again, the row erg doesn't reflect that. However, I would guess that weight penalty paid IRL on a bike by a heavy person is pound for pound greater than the penalty paid by the heavier rower. (I say this based primarily on the morphology of the best cyclists vs the best rowers.)

The bottom line, is that IMO heavier riders have a greater advantage on the bike erg compared to real life, vs heavier rowers on the row erg compared to real life.

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johnlvs2run
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Re: Weight adjustment

Post by johnlvs2run » January 15th, 2019, 2:32 am

rowingg wrote:
January 14th, 2019, 5:59 pm
do pretty much the same weight adjustment principles work for the scores achieved on the BikeErg as on the regular rowing ergometer?
Yes. I've compared weights and scores in the Bikeerg rankings, and the same relationship applies for all three of the ergs.
This is due to heavier people having room for much greater muscle mass. Thus the rankings are biased toward absolute weight.

Using pace (watts) per weight for the rankings would be a much better method, as we all have to carry our own weight in the real world.
73 5'8 155
age 70+ world record pace per weight percentages
skierg: 100m 87.4 / 500m 86.2 / 1k 85.9 / 2k 89.4 / 5k 87.6 / 10k 89.4 / 60' 92.0 / 21k 93.6
my training log

CaseyClarke
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Re: Weight adjustment

Post by CaseyClarke » January 16th, 2019, 12:13 pm

Yes, bigger advantages for heavier athletes on C2 machines. Consider somebody at 75kg needs to put out 4w/kg to push 300w, whereas somebody at 100kg only needs to put out 3w/kg for 300w.

From general observation I would say the SkiErg benefits the most from extra body weight, followed by the Rower and then the BikeErg last.

canoeist
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Re: Weight adjustment

Post by canoeist » March 5th, 2019, 2:00 pm

Watts per weight is not the best of ideas for a ranking system. The rankings would then be dominated by hyperactive five year old boys. There is nothing that can beat them pound for pound!

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Carl Watts
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Re: Weight adjustment

Post by Carl Watts » March 5th, 2019, 3:00 pm

Your all forgetting about height, this is a major advantage on the Erg.

Concept 2 should just leave the rankings system as it is. They have now linked all the information in your profile to the row in the rankings if you make your profile public information. You can thereby clearly see all the rowers stats if you want to start comparing yourself to others of a similar weight and height. You can now even see all their heartrate information and rating for the row, what else do you need ?

If Concept 2 what to do something really useful then please setup ONE Challenge a year that is for verified results only, I have been requesting this for 5 years.
Carl Watts.
Age:52 Weight: 104kg Height:183cm
Concept 2 Monitor Service Technician & indoor rower.
http://log.concept2.com/profile/863525/log

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johnlvs2run
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Re: Weight adjustment

Post by johnlvs2run » March 5th, 2019, 11:29 pm

canoeist wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 2:00 pm
Watts per weight is not the best of ideas for a ranking system. The rankings would then be dominated by hyperactive five year old boys.
Much more to fear for 240 pound men, are the 100 pound women. :)
73 5'8 155
age 70+ world record pace per weight percentages
skierg: 100m 87.4 / 500m 86.2 / 1k 85.9 / 2k 89.4 / 5k 87.6 / 10k 89.4 / 60' 92.0 / 21k 93.6
my training log

steveroedde
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Re: Weight adjustment

Post by steveroedde » May 19th, 2019, 8:38 am

Although I've only used my bike-erg a few times, and I do look to see the profile of those ahead of me, its a royal PIA to do so. Having a W/kg beside or on each one in the ranking table would be a simple shortcut and prevent excessive manual review. As it is, the bike-erg and ski erg allow big people with limited fitness to excel in the rankings. Of course as a lightweight guy (currently ~68kg) I'm biased...just as those who oppose such a move are likely all over 90kg such as Carl Watts :lol:

That said, on the rare occasion a little guy does well in a ranking piece... being ahead of guys who are only there because of size...it must feel even better... bigger dopamine hit :D

On the road things become a bit more real... the big guys dominate on the flats.... but us light guys can reel them in on the hills. Ditto real Nordic skiing (same flat/hill factors) and sculling (where their mass displaces more and impacts hull-speed).

It would only require a software fix... One could even design things to be able to toggle rankings between Watts (or time) and watts/kg). Not a computer guy, but it seems pretty simple. I can organize my logbook history looking at time/distance/pace... why not rankings?

CaseyClarke
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Re: Weight adjustment

Post by CaseyClarke » May 20th, 2019, 2:52 pm

Carl Watts wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 3:00 pm

If Concept 2 what to do something really useful then please setup ONE Challenge a year that is for verified results only, I have been requesting this for 5 years.
The inaugural BikeErg World Sprints (July 3rd-7th) will be for verified results only.

They should also do the same for the row and ski versions of this event.

jamesg
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Re: Weight adjustment

Post by jamesg » May 21st, 2019, 1:33 am

Inside my almost 90 kg bod there's a 70 kg erger (at a guess) trying to get out. Which should I use for sums?
78y, 188cm, 87kg, last seen MHR 163. 2k (24 May 19) 8.46.6@22

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hjs
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Re: Weight adjustment

Post by hjs » May 21st, 2019, 10:32 am

jamesg wrote:
May 21st, 2019, 1:33 am
Inside my almost 90 kg bod there's a 70 kg erger (at a guess) trying to get out. Which should I use for sums?
Indeed, weights itself is only one factor, being fat, will never be usefull, watts per kg are usefull for say cyclists, but those guys are lean. And here we see guys getting WEAKER, when they try to get better climbers, absolute numbers will lower, but relative watts per kg can still get better. Which makes a better climber.
Seize is simply a factor, for a sport like rowing a plus.

Other point, weight is often not a constant, using the weight you put in your profile is often not correct. I myself seldom weigh myself, not that it changes much, but still, I don,t know my exact weight.
For my training see twitter @Hjsrowing

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