Female high school rower - 2k question

Post Reply
cLev3lander!
Paddler
Posts: 4
Joined: July 27th, 2022, 3:01 pm

Female high school rower - 2k question

Post by cLev3lander! » July 27th, 2022, 3:14 pm

I am a 5'9" 140lb, 16y/o female who rows on a club team. My 2k is 8:29 and my pr for a 500 is a 1:59 but my most recent 500 test was a 2:02. I have only been rowing for one season. I also swim competitively in the winter and used to play soccer, until I quit soccer for rowing.

My on-water rowing is pretty good but my erg times are in need of help. I've started lifting a few times a week and erging/biking/running. Everyone is telling me to do steady state to drop my 2k but that does not seem to be working, and I hate erging so it is hard to find the motivation to erg for a long time as opposed to run or lift when I go to the gym. When I do erg on my own, I have trouble staying at the split needed for steady-state while going at an 18-20 rate. In the spring and fall my club practices on the water 6 days a week with some erging mixed in there.

Based on my height I've been told I should have a 2k closer to 8min, and I'd really like to get there, but right now that seems impossible. Any suggestions as to how to drop my 2k would be greatly appreciated!!

Tony Cook
5k Poster
Posts: 535
Joined: May 4th, 2020, 5:13 am

Re: Female high school rower - 2k question

Post by Tony Cook » July 27th, 2022, 4:31 pm

cLev3lander! wrote:
July 27th, 2022, 3:14 pm
I am a 5'9" 140lb, 16y/o female who rows on a club team. My 2k is 8:29 and my pr for a 500 is a 1:59 but my most recent 500 test was a 2:02. I have only been rowing for one season. I also swim competitively in the winter and used to play soccer, until I quit soccer for rowing.

My on-water rowing is pretty good but my erg times are in need of help. I've started lifting a few times a week and erging/biking/running. Everyone is telling me to do steady state to drop my 2k but that does not seem to be working, and I hate erging so it is hard to find the motivation to erg for a long time as opposed to run or lift when I go to the gym. When I do erg on my own, I have trouble staying at the split needed for steady-state while going at an 18-20 rate. In the spring and fall my club practices on the water 6 days a week with some erging mixed in there.

Based on my height I've been told I should have a 2k closer to 8min, and I'd really like to get there, but right now that seems impossible. Any suggestions as to how to drop my 2k would be greatly appreciated!!
Welcome to the forum.
Have a read of this thread viewtopic.php?f=3&t=205769
The same question was recently asked, and discussed there.
In general there is no shortcut. A 2k is 80% aerobic, so the biggest improvement comes with improved aerobic fitness. There’s no shortcut to that, it’s time doing aerobic work, best on the erg, as the test you want to do is on the erg.
Born 1963 6' 5" 100Kg
PBs from 2020 - 100m 15.7s - 1min 355m - 500m 1:28.4 - 1k 3:10.6 - 2k 6:31.6 - 5k 17:34.9 - 6k 20:57.5 - 30min @ 20SPM 8,336m - 10k 36:28.0 - 1 hour 16,094m - HM 1:18:51.7
2021 - 5k 17:26 - FM 2:53:37.0

jamesg
Half Marathon Poster
Posts: 3472
Joined: March 18th, 2006, 3:44 am
Location: Trentino Italy

Re: Female high school rower - 2k question

Post by jamesg » July 29th, 2022, 1:02 am

You're doing well already. 8:29 is 170W, which on 63 kg is almost 3W/kg. It sounds like you're doing even too much work: six days rowing plus erg plus lifting.. what else?

This type of training is necessary for endurance, but must not be overdone - getting fit is a growth function that can only be stimulated, not forced. Towards race season, coach will certainly halve the work but make it much faster.

If rowing crew is your main interest, concentrate on using a simple smooth style with the legs doing most of the work. If you're in a smaller boat, quad or double, style and precision are what moves her. And in eights, we can't all be in the engine room, there are other jobs to do too.
08-1940, 183cm, 84kg. Last seen MHR 158 in 2k = 220 - 77% of age.
2021-2: stroke 6 W-min. ½k 1:55.5; 1k 4:09.2; 2k 8:42.2; 5k 23:15; 30' 6247; 10k 49:36.

cLev3lander!
Paddler
Posts: 4
Joined: July 27th, 2022, 3:01 pm

Re: Female high school rower - 2k question

Post by cLev3lander! » July 29th, 2022, 6:53 pm

Sorry if the original post was confusing. What I meant was, we train 6 days a week from mid-august to late October, then in the spring from early march until late may or mid-june, but we usually train on the water for 4 or 5 of the 6 days but then one or two days a week are devoted to erging. The lifiting is on my own. Right now we don't have summer programming or training so I've just been trying to get some kind of workout in 6 days a week, whether it is erging, lifting, or something else.

Elizabeth
500m Poster
Posts: 66
Joined: February 27th, 2022, 10:32 pm

Re: Female high school rower - 2k question

Post by Elizabeth » July 29th, 2022, 8:43 pm

cLev3lander! wrote:
July 27th, 2022, 3:14 pm
I've started lifting a few times a week and erging/biking/running. Everyone is telling me to do steady state to drop my 2k but that does not seem to be working, and I hate erging so it is hard to find the motivation to erg for a long time as opposed to run or lift when I go to the gym. When I do erg on my own, I have trouble staying at the split needed for steady-state while going at an 18-20 rate.
Hi there! Is the challenge with erging that it's boring, or that you're having a hard time holding pace, or both? If it's the pace, what kind of splits are you targeting for steady state at rate 18-20, and how long are you trying to hold it?

I found time on the erg at the gym really boring, but I love it now that I have Netflix for steady state and headphones/music for the hard stuff. There are some series that I only watch on the erg, and sometimes I end up going longer if there's some really suspenseful stuff going on and I want to see what happens next!

It sounds like practice is starting up for you in 2-3 weeks, so there's likely limited gains that you can make before then. I'm sure your coach will also have tailored pointers.
38F.
1k 3:20.1 - 2k 7:02.9 - 5k 18:25.4 - 6k 22:24.7 - 10k 38:11.5 - HM 1:24:28.8 - FM 2:57:37.3 - 100k 7:42:33

cLev3lander!
Paddler
Posts: 4
Joined: July 27th, 2022, 3:01 pm

Re: Female high school rower - 2k question

Post by cLev3lander! » July 30th, 2022, 12:38 am

Elizabeth wrote:
July 29th, 2022, 8:43 pm
cLev3lander! wrote:
July 27th, 2022, 3:14 pm
I've started lifting a few times a week and erging/biking/running. Everyone is telling me to do steady state to drop my 2k but that does not seem to be working, and I hate erging so it is hard to find the motivation to erg for a long time as opposed to run or lift when I go to the gym. When I do erg on my own, I have trouble staying at the split needed for steady-state while going at an 18-20 rate.
Hi there! Is the challenge with erging that it's boring, or that you're having a hard time holding pace, or both? If it's the pace, what kind of splits are you targeting for steady state at rate 18-20, and how long are you trying to hold it?

I found time on the erg at the gym really boring, but I love it now that I have Netflix for steady state and headphones/music for the hard stuff. There are some series that I only watch on the erg, and sometimes I end up going longer if there's some really suspenseful stuff going on and I want to see what happens next!

It sounds like practice is starting up for you in 2-3 weeks, so there's likely limited gains that you can make before then. I'm sure your coach will also have tailored pointers.
Kind of both. It's boring which I think makes me not want to hold pace, or at least not feel like i can hold pace well, which then leads to a downward spiral because I get upset with myself for not being able to hold the pace. I've tried covering up the split part on the monitor with tape, which helped with motivation because I wasn't constantly chastising myself, but when I looked at the memory my average split was 3:00, which is not good at all and probably won't get me far in terms of fitness.

My most frequent steady state workout is a 19-minute piece broken up into different rates - like the first 6 minutes are at a 16, next four at an 18, next four at a 20, then last three minutes at a 22 and final 2 minutes at a 24. It's one of the workouts my club had us do this spring to try and build endurance and I usually try to do it 2 to three times with three minutes of rest after each 19 minutes. I find the different stroke rates makes it more interesting and helps keep me focused more. My goal split is usually under 2:30, which should be easy for me, but I never feel like I can hold it for as long as I could if I was erging at my club.

I tried watching netflix for steady state and listening to music for sprints or short pieces. The music helped a bit but when I tried to watch netflix I found myself having vastly different splits, I think because I wasn't putting out a consistent amount of power because I was distracted. I'm definitely going to try the netflix thing again though, it made it a lot more enjoyable and I think if I can get the hang of having a consistent power output, it would work really well.

Elizabeth
500m Poster
Posts: 66
Joined: February 27th, 2022, 10:32 pm

Re: Female high school rower - 2k question

Post by Elizabeth » July 30th, 2022, 6:19 am

Is your 2k time recent or from the spring season? A 8:29 2k will come out to splits of ~2:07. Steady state of "under 2:30" is going to come out to a pace of 2k+22 (or faster). I can land there if I'm feeling really good, but 2k+25-30 is a bit more normal. I wonder if you're trying to hit it a hair too fast. Can you hold it if you slow down to 2:35 or so?

Also, I have a different history with sport, but individual summer cross-country plans in high school/college were really more about putting in the miles and not about pace. Our coach would want us to do some pickups at the end of a couple of runs a week, but our overall focus was building a good base. When we got back to team practices in the fall, with the combination of group runs and lowered temperatures/humidity, it suddenly felt like we were flying along.

Encouraging self-talk can really help. I'm hearing you say "should" and "not good" a lot, and it sounds like you're beating yourself up a bit. Try thinking things like, "looks like my pace has slipped, let's try to focus for the next 10 strokes then keep on that pace". Or, "I need to slow down because it's so hot, but this is still building a good base". It's also helpful when you hit like the 1200 mark of a timed 2k and your mind is used to thinking things like "this is hard but I got it".
38F.
1k 3:20.1 - 2k 7:02.9 - 5k 18:25.4 - 6k 22:24.7 - 10k 38:11.5 - HM 1:24:28.8 - FM 2:57:37.3 - 100k 7:42:33

Dangerscouse
Marathon Poster
Posts: 7418
Joined: April 27th, 2014, 11:11 am
Location: Liverpool, England

Re: Female high school rower - 2k question

Post by Dangerscouse » July 30th, 2022, 9:40 am

Elizabeth wrote:
July 30th, 2022, 6:19 am
Encouraging self-talk can really help. I'm hearing you say "should" and "not good" a lot, and it sounds like you're beating yourself up a bit. Try thinking things like, "looks like my pace has slipped, let's try to focus for the next 10 strokes then keep on that pace". Or, "I need to slow down because it's so hot, but this is still building a good base". It's also helpful when you hit like the 1200 mark of a timed 2k and your mind is used to thinking things like "this is hard but I got it".
Totally agree with this. I love saying to myself, when it feels horrible, that I don't want it to be easy and it should be hard.

Imagine a friend(s) or family that really matter to you are stood behind you giving you encouragement. Also, think of a mantra to repeat in your mind. This could be a favourite song lyric, film quote, or something similar, it just has to be short and mean something to you. This helps distract your focus to something positive and meaningful, which will make it feel less horrible.
48 HWT; 6' 4"; 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:19; 6k= 20:47; 10k= 35:46 30mins= 8,488m 60mins= 16,618m HM= 1:16.47; FM= 2:40:41; 50k= 3:16:09; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you row"

Instagram: stuwenman

cLev3lander!
Paddler
Posts: 4
Joined: July 27th, 2022, 3:01 pm

Re: Female high school rower - 2k question

Post by cLev3lander! » July 30th, 2022, 10:18 am

Elizabeth wrote:
July 30th, 2022, 6:19 am
Is your 2k time recent or from the spring season? A 8:29 2k will come out to splits of ~2:07. Steady state of "under 2:30" is going to come out to a pace of 2k+22 (or faster). I can land there if I'm feeling really good, but 2k+25-30 is a bit more normal. I wonder if you're trying to hit it a hair too fast. Can you hold it if you slow down to 2:35 or so?

Also, I have a different history with sport, but individual summer cross-country plans in high school/college were really more about putting in the miles and not about pace. Our coach would want us to do some pickups at the end of a couple of runs a week, but our overall focus was building a good base. When we got back to team practices in the fall, with the combination of group runs and lowered temperatures/humidity, it suddenly felt like we were flying along.

Encouraging self-talk can really help. I'm hearing you say "should" and "not good" a lot, and it sounds like you're beating yourself up a bit. Try thinking things like, "looks like my pace has slipped, let's try to focus for the next 10 strokes then keep on that pace". Or, "I need to slow down because it's so hot, but this is still building a good base". It's also helpful when you hit like the 1200 mark of a timed 2k and your mind is used to thinking things like "this is hard but I got it".
My 2k is from mid-may, which was the last organized one we did on an erg, although we still had on water 2k regattas up until June 10.

Keeping it at a 2:35 or under a 2:40 is usually where I land for steady state when I think about power and technique and am not just mindlessly rowing. I think that is a much more reasonable goal that I could definitely do.

As for the self talk I'm going to have to try that. I tried taping motivational things to my erg like we do for long races, and it helped some, but I think it would have been more effective if I also was encouraging myself mentally. I also think if I reframe my goal from "drop 2k" to "get fit for fall season" I might do a lot better since it's a more manageable goal in this time frame.

Thanks everyone for the help! I really appreciate it :)

Elizabeth
500m Poster
Posts: 66
Joined: February 27th, 2022, 10:32 pm

Re: Female high school rower - 2k question

Post by Elizabeth » July 30th, 2022, 2:43 pm

If the 2k is from May, then a 2:40 pace may be a good starting point. If you feel particularly good on a given day, maybe try to hit more like 2:35. "Get fit for fall season" is a great goal! Good luck! The fall season will be here before you know it.
38F.
1k 3:20.1 - 2k 7:02.9 - 5k 18:25.4 - 6k 22:24.7 - 10k 38:11.5 - HM 1:24:28.8 - FM 2:57:37.3 - 100k 7:42:33

Dangerscouse
Marathon Poster
Posts: 7418
Joined: April 27th, 2014, 11:11 am
Location: Liverpool, England

Re: Female high school rower - 2k question

Post by Dangerscouse » July 30th, 2022, 3:38 pm

cLev3lander! wrote:
July 30th, 2022, 10:18 am
As for the self talk I'm going to have to try that. I tried taping motivational things to my erg like we do for long races, and it helped some, but I think it would have been more effective if I also was encouraging myself mentally. I also think if I reframe my goal from "drop 2k" to "get fit for fall season" I might do a lot better since it's a more manageable goal in this time frame.

Thanks everyone for the help! I really appreciate it :)
I'd highly recommend reading / listening to The Chimp Paradox by Dr Steve Peters. He was the GB cycling sports psychologist and has really simplified what you need to do to control your self-defeating thoughts.

It's a simple concept, but it's very true and can work wonders. The most important thing to remember is that you need to keep training your mind, as you'll fall back into bad habits if you don't, and you'll continue to have destructive thoughts, but you'll just know what to do with them
48 HWT; 6' 4"; 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:19; 6k= 20:47; 10k= 35:46 30mins= 8,488m 60mins= 16,618m HM= 1:16.47; FM= 2:40:41; 50k= 3:16:09; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you row"

Instagram: stuwenman

Post Reply