Optimum split pacing ?

From the CRASH-B's to an online challenge, discuss the competitive side of erging here.
ccooper
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Re: Optimum split pacing ?

Post by ccooper » September 24th, 2018, 10:24 am

lindsayh wrote:
September 24th, 2018, 2:58 am
Remo wrote:
September 24th, 2018, 2:08 am
Chris, you've stumbled onto my secret identity. I've watched that race you did two years ago many times on youtube. You always win. It makes me happy Going back 40 years, my best 2ks (or the equivalent) have always been flat. Always hope I'm going to have a sprint, but I end up in the last 500 just warding off the darkness. Anything 1k or below my best tends to be slightly positive split and for 5ks and that ilk, my bests are negative splits -- stretched out versions of your 2ks. Maybe I'll see you at CruFit, next weekend.
I have watched that race a few times too - Chris of course does always win it which makes me less happy! I agree with the flat but negative split strategy too in general. On that day though I decided to go out harder than usual to find out if Chris was up for the race - he was! - he was unbeatable that day. Hope to see you guys at Crufit again too sometime. Remo were you there the day I did the class with Chris last year?
That race was a little bit of a disappointment for me, since I was hoping to improve the record by a couple of seconds. In a few years, guys like Stewart and Jon are likely to tear it up. I was surprised that Lindsay went out so fast, since I think we both knew from that day at CruFit that I was a second or so faster...much like Stewart is 1-2 seconds faster than I am now.

Jon seems to love the race tactics, and maybe enjoys the come-from-behind sprint a little too much to put in his best possible time in a race. Maybe that's a result of OTW background, which I don't have. I would rather try to do the fastest overall race, but that only works if you can tune out the competition to some extent.
--
Chris Cooper M65-69 Hwt 2km world record 6:39.5 in 2017

ccooper
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Re: Optimum split pacing ?

Post by ccooper » October 10th, 2018, 1:09 am

An analysis of the world championships OTW just completed contains this interesting paragraph:
Analysis of the race strategy using our traditional method (RBN 2003/07) has shown that the winners had the lowest variation of speed among all finalists: the winners spread their efforts the most evenly throughout the race, with a relatively slower first 500m and a faster middle section.
The article also points out that stroke rates have increased dramatically.
https://www.rowperfect.co.uk/rowing-str ... he-worlds/
--
Chris Cooper M65-69 Hwt 2km world record 6:39.5 in 2017

Cyclingman1
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Re: Optimum split pacing ?

Post by Cyclingman1 » October 17th, 2018, 8:13 pm

ccooper wrote:
September 24th, 2018, 10:24 am
I was hoping to improve the record by a couple of seconds. In a few years, guys like Stewart and Jon are likely to tear it up.
ccooper wrote:
October 10th, 2018, 1:09 am
An analysis of the world championships OTW just completed contains this interesting paragraph:
Analysis of the race strategy using our traditional method (RBN 2003/07) has shown that the winners had the lowest variation of speed among all finalists: the winners spread their efforts the most evenly throughout the race, with a relatively slower first 500m and a faster middle section.
I think the top of the rankings thru the years are full of guys who think they coulda, shoulda done better. Or make predictions for down the road based on the current yr. I know that I pretty easily got to 6:40.7 at age 66 just a couple of months after starting rowing. No doubt in my mind was I going to see 6:36. WRONG. Lot of issues came up. As far as Steve Krum and Jon Bone beating 6:39.5 in a couple of yrs based on current times, I won't be putting money on it. And I mean absolutely no disrespect to either. There have been a few with their times who could not do it. However, I do think that a 6:35-36 is definitely possible for 65+. Hendershot did 6:23.7 at age 60. There's a guy in Hawaii who if he had desired could have done it.

The topic of split times comes up all the time. Of course, everyone has to row in a manner that is best for them. I for one do not think that negative splits in particular or even splits for that matter are the way to go. Why would one start a second or two slower than target race pace? You have to make up those couple of seconds to get even. Forget maybe coming in below target race pace. I invariably start at -2 for the first 500m. Slowing down some over next 1K and seeing what is left for last 500m. Works for me. And I'm hardly the only one.
JimG, Gainesville, Ga, 72,187lb,76”. PBs since age 66: (.5,1,2,5,6,10K)1:30.8, 3:14.1, 6:40.7, 17:34, 21:18.1, 36:21.7;
(1,30,60’)332, 8337, 16237; (HM)1:20:25.

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NavigationHazard
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Re: Optimum split pacing ?

Post by NavigationHazard » October 19th, 2018, 2:29 pm

I certainly intend to take a run at it, and I'm quite sure my good friend Steve has ideas as well. Here's an idea: if I break 6:39.5, and you're still around, you contribute $50 to US Rowing or the American Cancer Society in commemoration of the late great Joan van Blom. I do it, I'll give them $500. I don't do it, I'll give the $50 to the charity of your choice.

I'll even do it on 9/26/20, our mutual birthday, if I can find an erg competition on the day or get C2 to sanction a record attempt.
63 MH 6' 6"

Cyclingman1
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Re: Optimum split pacing ?

Post by Cyclingman1 » October 19th, 2018, 5:04 pm

NavigationHazard wrote:
October 19th, 2018, 2:29 pm
I certainly intend to take a run at it, and I'm quite sure my good friend Steve has ideas as well. Here's an idea: if I break 6:39.5, and you're still around, you contribute $50 to US Rowing or the American Cancer Society in commemoration of the late great Joan van Blom. I do it, I'll give them $500. I don't do it, I'll give the $50 to the charity of your choice.
Jon, If you or Steve stay injury and illness free, I'd give you all a 50-50 chance of breaking C.Cooper's WR, but that is still not a sure enough thing for me to bet on. :) Not sure why, but there are numerous examples of those in early 60s under 6:39 who dropped 10-20 sec off of 2K in just 2-3 years. You guys have about 2.5 years to go before C2 events are generally held in 2021, at least in US. It will be a race against time in more ways than one.

One guy has done it. TJO did 6:36.5 at age 65, verified, but not at a C2 event. Did 6:26.x at age 64. No doubt the best 65 yr old erger ever. I had back issues all thru 2012, with at least three epidurals, or I would have the record. I actually got an email from one of the C2 brothers encouraging me to come to the 2013 Crash-B. Of course, I don't expect anyone to accept my belief, but I know where I was in Apr, 2012. Couldn't make it back.

You break the record, I'll gladly contribute to the Am Cancer Society. Hope you do. JimG
JimG, Gainesville, Ga, 72,187lb,76”. PBs since age 66: (.5,1,2,5,6,10K)1:30.8, 3:14.1, 6:40.7, 17:34, 21:18.1, 36:21.7;
(1,30,60’)332, 8337, 16237; (HM)1:20:25.

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gregory.cook
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Re: Optimum split pacing ?

Post by gregory.cook » October 28th, 2018, 6:20 pm

Hey Nav. I'll take you up on that. But I'd like to change the terms a bit... you make the attempt and I'll donate the money. 8-) You can donate, too, if you want.
Age: 48, Weight: 155 lbs, Height: 5' 9"

The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. -- Albert Camus

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