Gensen Palmer's 2,372,000 m Holiday Challenge

From the CRASH-B's to an online challenge, discuss the competitive side of erging here.
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Carl Watts
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Re: Gensen Palmer's 2,372,000 m Holiday Challenge

Post by Carl Watts » January 15th, 2020, 1:01 am

jackarabit wrote:
January 15th, 2020, 12:46 am
Nomath checks the math. Gotta luvit.
I think you need to check the first post, that is up to 10 to 16 hours a day so the pace is likely to be even slower than 3:00 pace, more like 3:15 at which point your just about starting to use as much energy moving up and down the slide as your putting into the flywheel.

I will believe it when I see it in a verified meters, open LogBook.
Carl Watts.
Age:52 Weight: 104kg Height:183cm
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Carl Watts
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Re: Gensen Palmer's 2,372,000 m Holiday Challenge

Post by Carl Watts » January 15th, 2020, 3:41 am

By the way its not a good idea to compare 100W on a bike to 100W on the Erg, the two do not equate to the same distance.

You can do the Challenge on the ErgBike but they HALVE your meters so its pretty hard to cycle 20 to 32 hours a day.
Carl Watts.
Age:52 Weight: 104kg Height:183cm
Concept 2 Monitor Service Technician & indoor rower.
http://log.concept2.com/profile/863525/log

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Re: Gensen Palmer's 2,372,000 m Holiday Challenge

Post by Nomath » January 15th, 2020, 9:27 am

Carl Watts wrote:
January 15th, 2020, 1:01 am
I think you need to check the first post, that is up to 10 to 16 hours a day so the pace is likely to be even slower than 3:00 pace, more like 3:15 at which point your just about starting to use as much energy moving up and down the slide as your putting into the flywheel.

I will believe it when I see it in a verified meters, open LogBook.
I read the first post. Your insistance on having data for ranking and challenges verified is a fair point, but I find your later remarks very unfair
Carl Watts wrote: You only need to do the math on the seat time and it becomes impossible when your rowing at near 3:00min/500m pace, just not enough hours in a day.
The math shows that it is possible !

It is perfectly sensible to compare watts on a C2 rower and on a bike erg. At 200W input, a rower will attain 500m in 2 minutes, hence 15 km/hr. If the bike erg behaves anywhere near to a road bike, every power-to-speed calculator will tell you that in the absence of wind or drafting, a cyclist on pavement producing 200W will get to a speed of about 33 km/hr, hence double the distance of a rower for the same intensity and time. So when the Holiday Challenge halves the meters of the bike erg, this is fair to both ergs. Your remark about having to cycle 20-32 hours a day is thus nonsense!

Have you ever heard of the Tour Divide race? It's a yearly mountainbike race starting in Banff-Canada over the Continental Divide to the US/Mexico border. The distance is 2745 mi and the elevation gain about 200,000 ft (4420 km ; 60,000 m). The race is 24hrs on and participants are self-supporting. They carry their own gear (clothing, tent, sleeping bag) plus food and drinks between towns, which are often 40 miles apart and occasionally 80 miles. A typical day schedule is 6 hours sleep, 4-6 hours eat/breaks and 12-14 hours ride. The record time stands at 13 days+23 hrs, but doing the full distance within 25 days is a very honorable achievement. My estimate is that for a 25 days ride a cyclists needs about 150W on average when in the saddle (i.e. during 12 hrs). In recent years about 150 participants start the race and more than 50 get to the finish succesfully. This demonstrates that the body of a trained athlete can do very long efforts when the mind is focussed on a goal.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tour_Divide

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Re: Gensen Palmer's 2,372,000 m Holiday Challenge

Post by Nomath » January 15th, 2020, 2:01 pm

Carl Watts wrote:
January 15th, 2020, 3:41 am
By the way its not a good idea to compare 100W on a bike to 100W on the Erg, the two do not equate to the same distance.
Although it is a bit off-topic, I like to add a more general remark about the comparison of power on a bike and power on a row-ergometer.

The C2 pace-to-power calculator uses the formula watts = 2.80/pace³. Pace is the inverse of linear speed v [m/sec], so watts = 2.80 x v³ .
The power for riding a bicycle on a flat road is composed of two components, rolling resistance and air resistance. Rolling resistance power is proportional to the linear speed v. The air resistance power, in the absence of wind or drafting, is proportional to v³. For linear speeds above 12 km/h the air resistance dominates.

Hence for realistic speeds the rower-erg and an outdoor bicycle have nearly the same relation between power and speed. A bike-erg use the same turbine flywheel as the row-erg and will behave similarly.
The linear speed of a real road bike on pavement, and presumably of a bike-erg, is about double the speed of a row-erg.
For the following comparison I used the power-to-speed graphs from https://tunedintocycling.com/2014/06/28 ... esistance/
200W input : v-row = 15 km/h ; v-bike = 33 km/h
100W input : v-row = 12 km/h ; v-bike = 25 km/h
60W input : v-row = 10 km/h ; v-bike = 21 km/h

Again the conclusion is that the two are very well comparable. For the same power and time, the distance on a road bike will be roughly twice that on a row ergometer.

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Re: Gensen Palmer's 2,372,000 m Holiday Challenge

Post by Citroen » January 15th, 2020, 2:27 pm

Too much thread drift. Locking.

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