Big change at top of nonathlon

[Bob S.]

Wouldn't it make sense that every competitor posts their times with validated data....eg Rowpro or C2 log. It's not expensive and readily available. You can rely on peoples honesty in a perfect world....but this worlds not perfect. It would certainly eliminate the questions and suppositions. I feel guilty just posting my training times with out validation.
It would seem that this Nonathlon was thought up fpr a bit of fun....but not everyone appears happy.

The validation has long ago been gamed successfully. A validated record-breaking 2k was done by a team just to prove that it could be done. The 2k time was not recognized, of course, since it was not done at an open public venue. Currently (and for several years now) validation of some sort is required for any WRs, but I fail to see why it should be required just to post ones results. The C2 logcards are cheap enough, but I don't see how you can say that about RowPro. The price itself is not all that cheap and it requires the use of a computer connected to the erg during the piece. The cheapest validation is the use of the code number available for any piece that can be ranked. That costs only the brief time that it takes to push the necessary monitor buttons and write down the 16 digit code number.

The nonathlon is another matter. You can post results on that even if they are not posted in the rankings. So, yes, it is just there for a bit of fun, but it is heavily scrutinized by a lot of users and it would be hard for someone coming from nowhere to stand that scrutiny. Adams may have gotten away with it in the early days, but eventually was exposed. That case went well beyond the nonathlon and caused a huge flap at the time, especially on the old UK forum. It even broke up one of the more popular online teams in the UK. It has been quite a few years now, but if I remember correctly, that incident was the inspiration for the fake 2k done by the team.

Bob S.

[hjs]

Tj is smaller and very consistant in his performances.

But you are right about that 6.23 very good. I know not to much about Hendershot, but if I am not mistaken he is big not


But in general, looking at 2k, we have a 5.36 wr all ages.
5.56 for 40/49
6.07 for 50/60
And 6.23 for 60/70
6.50 ish for 70

Numbers very rough out of my hand. Edit missed mikes post, his list is clear.

Four others have ended the season ranked #1 in all ten events: Anna Bailey, F-H, 50-59, 2003; Dwayne Adams, M-H, 40-49, 2005; Robert Spenger, M-H, 80+, 2006; and, Anne Bourlioux, F-H, 50-59, 2013.

TJ Oesterling has done it four times, in 2009, 2010, 2012 and 2013.

Adams was a fraude, he never produced any witnessed row.


Mister TJ is indeed a very fine atlete, difficult to compare with rowers in their prime, but for older ergers the best ever by a big margin.

How big a margin, Henry? How about Paul Hendershott?

as in: 2000 meters 60-64 Paul Hendershott M Hwt 60 USA 6:23.7 2004 Indoor rowing race
Last time I looked even TJ hasn't broken that one... (Sorry if someone else has pointed this out already...)

Lot's of us have met Paul and he's the real item... as is TJ.... All the best to all of you...
regards,
Mike vB

[hjs]

Wouldn't it make sense that every competitor posts their times with validated data....eg Rowpro or C2 log. It's not expensive and readily available. You can rely on peoples honesty in a perfect world....but this worlds not perfect. It would certainly eliminate the questions and suppositions. I feel guilty just posting my training times with out validation.
It would seem that this Nonathlon was thought up fpr a bit of fun....but not everyone appears happy.

Training times are what they are, training times, but you will soon race, after that race no matter the outcome you training will be validated. You can,t predict the exact outcome, but roughly spoken the outcome will be clear.

In no other sport training times mean anything, so why should that be in erging. Nowadays its so easy to make a video and be witnessed, if someones not even does that, I don,t take them seriously.

There are a few individuals who did post frauded training, D Adams, being the most obvious, the man was not that bright and dug a big hole for himself and made it deeper and deeper. In the end he hit behind a back injure. He once raced in the beginning of his carreer and made a fool of himself. Claiming to be able to go sub 6, but even 1.35 pace was to much at the beginning of his race. He pulled 7.00.... After this he never was seen in public again on the erg, but kept on claiming beyond fast times.

[Cyclingman1]

How about Paul Hendershott?
as in: 2000 meters 60-64 Paul Hendershott M Hwt 60 USA 6:23.7 2004 Indoor rowing race
Last time I looked even TJ hasn't broken that one... (Sorry if someone else has pointed this out already...)
Lot's of us have met Paul and he's the real item... as is TJ....

Tj is smaller and very consistant in his performances.
But you are right about that 6.23 very good. I know not to much about Hendershot, but if I am not mistaken he is big not

TJ did 6:26.5 in 2013 season. I'm not sure he is all that interested in official C2 records. He does not row in C2 sanctioned events. There are none in Hawaii. He probably feels traveling a few thousand miles for a C2 is not worth it. I have no doubt that he could go under 6:20 if he focused on 2K even at the age of 65. It might be noted that Paul had long since disappeared from the rowing scene at age 65. We all know that the first year of an age group is the time to get records. I suspect TJ will still be the best 60-69 rower at age 69.

As far as the

2000 65-69 Charles Hamlin M Hwt 65 USA 6:40.3 2013 CRASH-B 2013

Hamlin mark, 6:40 is a warm up for TJ. Personally, that hurts for me, because I struggled mightily last year to get unofficially under 6:41.x last year - the old record. I did get to 6:40.7 (C2Log), only to see Hamlin go under at Boston. But I never had any illusions about getting to TJ's time or possible times in 2K.

As far as physical size, I would wonder if Paul was bigger. TJ was a linebacker in the old AFL football league after an All American college career at UCLA. He is a big powerful athlete - one of the reasons that the rest of us around his age have a huge hill to climb to even get close to his postings. He also seems to have stayed healthy judged by his constant posting of better and better times.

As far as overall dominance, I don't believe that Paul had great times at all distances.

So, yes, it is just there for a bit of fun, but it is heavily scrutinized by a lot of users and it would be hard for someone coming from nowhere to stand that scrutiny. Adams may have gotten away with it in the early days, but eventually was exposed.

I agree. A fraud would not make it now and there are some fraudulent C2 records from the past, let alone nonathlon. I like nonathlon. Being older of course I would. It may not be perfect, but it does level the field.

[Cyclingman1]

Well, the ten event total for TJO is up to 9542 in nonathlon. That is the highest total since 2006 and that score may be under the old system that inflated scores. It is possible that TJ has set a new nonathlon record, and he has 8 months to improve upon it.

Regarding the 2K time. Sure enough, TJ's 6:36.4 is well under the current 65+ HWt WR of 6:40.3. However, when looking at his 5K pace of 1:42.6, one would think that 1:37.1 is quite possible, if not better. That would translate to a 2K time of 6:28.4, which is still above the +60 WR.

So who in the C2 rowing community is going to challenge TJ in nonathlon, or more generally in age-weighted results?

[tjo]

Aloha,

I find myself needing to provide some facts to preempt being accused of passively approving what I am not while also fleshing out the overall conversation.

I played defensive tackle at UCLA. While I did receive some All-Conference honors, I was not named to any All-American teams. Height: 195 cm, Weight 119 kg.

In 1971 I was drafted by the NFL Oakland Raiders late in the 10th round. I succeeded in having rich NFL training camp experiences, getting cut by the Raiders, Rams and Broncos in successive years. During this period I remained a defensive lineman, adding the defensive end position to my job description. Height: 195 cm, Weight 111 kg.

Today, at 191 cm, and 93kg, I am average or below others who are posting top five (5) ranked times at distances from 500 – 2k. Given the relationship of mass and strength I am quite confident I do not enjoy any inordinate advantage of strength. Distances of increasing length? While rowing may be one of the few physical activities that does not seem to greatly penalize mass with increasing distance, I will leave that dialogue for another day. I am not aware of any extraordinary physiological gifts or endowments

Correctly noted, I have been blessed with good health. I would submit health, along with over four decades of training and racing; running, triathlon, paddling and rowing have created a good base. Like all of us, I train earnestly. I would like to add, the company and counseling of Ralph Earle has been a great asset. While Hawaii is a water state, filled with gifted waterpeople, there are almost no rowers, except Ralph.

Presently, I do not foresee traveling to any sanctioned events unless spirit and circumstance should provide.

Thank you for your indulgence. I wish you all good health and good training.

Kind regards,
TJ Oesterling

[mikvan52]

Presently, I do not foresee traveling to any sanctioned events unless spirit and circumstance should provide.

Kind regards,
TJ Oesterling

Well said, TJ.
I think I speak for many people in saying that you have little to prove. The stipulations for setting a WR at 2k are a little steep for a resident of an archipelago... All sanctioned events are on the mainland..

"Requirements

All 2000 meter record-breaking times must be rowed at a Concept2 sanctioned indoor rowing event with witnesses present. In addition, all 2000 meter record-breaking times must be rowed on Concept2 Indoor Rowers without Slides."

Yet, wouldn't it be wonderful for you to get on the record books at the most heavily contested distance... the 2k...
It would be a walk in the park for you 6:40 (current) vs. your time...as a 64 year-old..

Hope you'll take a deep breath and consider traveling to Long Beach next winter.... Living where you do, you may well have the frequent flier miles anyway...

Hey, alternatively, maybe your training buddies will set up a sanctioned event for you.. and you won't have to leave town?