Struggle with 5K

From the CRASH-B's to an online challenge, discuss the competitive side of erging here.
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KeithT
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Struggle with 5K

Post by KeithT » February 5th, 2018, 3:05 pm

Hi all, new poster here. I am wondering if others have issues with a particular distance. I will be 50 in April,and I am currently ranked in top 10 in US in the 40-49 group with everything I,have tested except the 5k. I can do short distances pretty good (1:25 in 500) and longer distances decent (8105m for 30 min.) but I,just did,the 5k yesterday and managed 18:03. Had some left in tank but according to charts I,have seen I should be much quicker,based on my other times. My 2k by the way is 6:44 and Hope to,lower that at a comp on the 17th.
50 yo, 6'3" 205#
PBs: 1 min - 360m, 500m - 1:25.5, 1K - 3:04.9, 2K - 6:39.5, 5K - 17:37, 30 min - 8196m, 60 min - 15719

lindsayh
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Re: Struggle with 5K

Post by lindsayh » February 6th, 2018, 4:44 am

KeithT wrote:Hi all, new poster here. I am wondering if others have issues with a particular distance. I will be 50 in April,and I am currently ranked in top 10 in US in the 40-49 group with everything I,have tested except the 5k. I can do short distances pretty good (1:25 in 500) and longer distances decent (8105m for 30 min.) but I,just did,the 5k yesterday and managed 18:03. Had some left in tank but according to charts I,have seen I should be much quicker,based on my other times. My 2k by the way is 6:44 and Hope to,lower that at a comp on the 17th.
Hi Keith
this question might get more attention if posted on the training sub forum/thread above - been quite a lot of discussion about time/pace predictors and the like. The 5k is a difficult beast to master though and some would say the hardest one to get right. They are really decent numbers you have. FWIW though my 2k pb is 6:46, 1k 3:10 but the best at 5k is 18:07 so not too far off the mark..
Lindsay
66yo 91kg
Sydney Australia
Forum Flyer
PBs (65y+) 1 min 349m, 500m 1:29.8, 1k 3:11.7 2k 6:47.4, 5km 18:07.9, 30' 7928m, 10k 37:57.2

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hjs
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Re: Struggle with 5K

Post by hjs » February 6th, 2018, 9:11 am

KeithT wrote:Hi all, new poster here. I am wondering if others have issues with a particular distance. I will be 50 in April,and I am currently ranked in top 10 in US in the 40-49 group with everything I,have tested except the 5k. I can do short distances pretty good (1:25 in 500) and longer distances decent (8105m for 30 min.) but I,just did,the 5k yesterday and managed 18:03. Had some left in tank but according to charts I,have seen I should be much quicker,based on my other times. My 2k by the way is 6:44 and Hope to,lower that at a comp on the 17th.
500 125
2k 141
5k 148
30min 151

Clear trend, nothing unusual, you need more aerobic fitness. Both 5k and 30 min are relative slower. 5k is in line with that half hour though.
For my training see twitter @Hjsrowing

KeithT
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Re: Struggle with 5K

Post by KeithT » February 6th, 2018, 11:58 am

Thanks for the replies, sounds like the time for the 5k was about expected, maybe the issue was with the pace predictor. I have a 3:09 1k so my times are,right in line with you Lindsay. I think more aerobic fitness might help. I train more at shorter distance as I compete in CrossFit as well but may focus more on rowing this year.
50 yo, 6'3" 205#
PBs: 1 min - 360m, 500m - 1:25.5, 1K - 3:04.9, 2K - 6:39.5, 5K - 17:37, 30 min - 8196m, 60 min - 15719

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hjs
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Re: Struggle with 5K

Post by hjs » February 6th, 2018, 12:29 pm

KeithT wrote:Thanks for the replies, sounds like the time for the 5k was about expected, maybe the issue was with the pace predictor. I have a 3:09 1k so my times are,right in line with you Lindsay. I think more aerobic fitness might help. I train more at shorter distance as I compete in CrossFit as well but may focus more on rowing this year.
Training for 2k is pretty boring, not much fancy stuff needed.

That 1k compared to your 500 is also already slower. Crossfit kind of training makes you relative strong, but its not so much aimed a pure aerobic fitness. For that you do longer, 30 min or more continues work at 2k plus 18/22 seconds pace. Ratings 18/22. Just making the meters.... Boring but it works
For my training see twitter @Hjsrowing

KeithT
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Re: Struggle with 5K

Post by KeithT » February 6th, 2018, 12:46 pm

Thanks hjs. I have done little steady state work. When I have my pacing seems about what you recommend but stroke rate is a little higher, might need to work on keeping that lower. I feel comfortable with my form (even got certified as an instructor) as well as pacing strategy but need to learn more about training and programming, especially if o want to pursue this more.
50 yo, 6'3" 205#
PBs: 1 min - 360m, 500m - 1:25.5, 1K - 3:04.9, 2K - 6:39.5, 5K - 17:37, 30 min - 8196m, 60 min - 15719

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hjs
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Re: Struggle with 5K

Post by hjs » February 6th, 2018, 1:16 pm

KeithT wrote:Thanks hjs. I have done little steady state work. When I have my pacing seems about what you recommend but stroke rate is a little higher, might need to work on keeping that lower. I feel comfortable with my form (even got certified as an instructor) as well as pacing strategy but need to learn more about training and programming, especially if o want to pursue this more.
Te strokerate. The idea is to build a solid strong stroke. Look at strenght if your stroke during a 2k. Thats watts divided by spm. Use this number during longer sessions. This way you do use a good stroke and the lower rating gives you enough rest between strokes to be able to do so.

The less you are trained aerobicly the better :wink: cause the more you can improve.
For my training see twitter @Hjsrowing

KeithT
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Re: Struggle with 5K

Post by KeithT » February 6th, 2018, 5:40 pm

Did the math, SPM would be 18 then for me on the steady ow. Will give it try.
50 yo, 6'3" 205#
PBs: 1 min - 360m, 500m - 1:25.5, 1K - 3:04.9, 2K - 6:39.5, 5K - 17:37, 30 min - 8196m, 60 min - 15719

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Carl Watts
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Re: Struggle with 5K

Post by Carl Watts » February 6th, 2018, 8:52 pm

I guess every distance or time is a hard row but the 5K is tough.

Had similar times to you but my 5K was my best ever effort at 17:49 flat. You should be sub 18 based on the rest of your times unless your endurance is slightly less than it should be.

Whats your 10K ? that will highlight the endurance aspect even more. Its possible to have the strength but not the endurance for the longer events, that was my big problem starting out.

Your 30min is exactly the same as my PB, it may be that you didn't quite pace it fast enough from the start if you had something left at the finish.
Carl Watts.
Age:51 Weight: 98kg Height:183cm
Concept 2 Monitor Service Technician & indoor rower.
http://log.concept2.com/profile/863525/log

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hjs
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Re: Struggle with 5K

Post by hjs » February 7th, 2018, 4:10 am

KeithT wrote:Did the math, SPM would be 18 then for me on the steady ow. Will give it try.
Ease into the rating, in a few weeks it will feel natural and your pace will pick up.
For my training see twitter @Hjsrowing

Cyclingman1
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Re: Struggle with 5K

Post by Cyclingman1 » February 7th, 2018, 9:42 am

Indoor rowing is international. Using one's standings in one country ignores the bigger picture. From what I can see, the OP's 5K time [110] is actually higher ranked than is the 2K time [120], which I see as 6:46.9.

Most indoor rowers are better at a particular range of distances. Being good at 500m and 1K is pretty much irrelevant for 5K on up, even 2K to some extent. Aerobic fitness is the end all, be all for 5K on up. Aerobic fitness from other sports can carry over to rowing. I plunged into indoor rowing at age 66 after years of road cycling. Within a few months I recorded 6:40.7 [1:40.1], 17:34 [1:45.4], & 8337 [1:47.9] for 2K, 5K, & 30 min. Notice the differentials in pace. My short distance times are pitiful compared to yours. We are very similar in size. The difference in our times, especially given the age differential, has to be aerobic fitness.

Re: SPM. I do not deny that strength of stroke is important. Assumptions are made about rowing at say 20 SPM at 10-11 Watts/stroke. And that is that one can assume that one can step up to 30-32 SPM and keep the same W/s. Unfortunately, that often falls short. I've never done low SPM rowing, doing about 28-32 for most of my rowing depending mostly on distance. That is also an aerobic fitness thing. You have to be fit to row at higher SPM for any amount of time. I will admit that I came to rowing with much greater upper body strength than most cyclists, making low SPM training less imperative.
JimG, Gainesville, Ga, 72,190lb,76”. PBs since age 66: (.5,1,2,5,6,10K)1:30.8, 3:14.1, 6:40.7, 17:34, 21:18.1, 36:21.7;
(1,30,60’)332, 8337, 16237; (HM)1:20:25.

KeithT
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Re: Struggle with 5K

Post by KeithT » February 7th, 2018, 11:28 am

More great feedback. The general consensus is to do more aerobic work. I think it will help the 5k and my 2k which is what all the comps are and should be main focus. I do a comp on the 17th and plan to PR and go low 6:40s and then start trying to get under 6:40 in coming months. I have the Cross Fit Open starting soon as well so training will remain balanced for now. So glad I got on forum, I am sure I will have many questions coming about 2K improvement.
50 yo, 6'3" 205#
PBs: 1 min - 360m, 500m - 1:25.5, 1K - 3:04.9, 2K - 6:39.5, 5K - 17:37, 30 min - 8196m, 60 min - 15719

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